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This gun and crate look real good. Other than the fact that this guy sells a lot of high grade in the box guns, can anyone really say for sure they are not original? http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=412526939
The seller is a dishonest dealer, and has sold dozens upon dozens of faked boxes/crates with nice condition guns… Caveat Emptor!
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Got a question on the letter with the gun: It states "Winchester High Velocity". What exactly does that mean when stated on a factory letter. Im aware of the WHV ammo, but it just seems odd.
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
Will 2nd Bert on his observations. Would add the question, How many other dealers out there in the stratosphere have you ever seen selling a high original condition gun in its original factory shipping crate? Let alone several dozen?
Also what about other antique guns? Have you ever seen any antique Marlins, Colts, Remingtons, Sharps, Spencers, Savages, and Stevens being sold in there original shipping crates?
I think if you answer those questions you’ll have the answer to your own.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
1892Takedown said
Got a question on the letter with the gun: It states "Winchester High Velocity". What exactly does that mean when stated on a factory letter. Im aware of the WHV ammo, but it just seems odd.
Chris,
For the 32-40 and 38-55 cartridges, Winchester made WHV cartridges, and when so ordered, the subject rifle should have a Nickel Steel barrel (ordinarily, the Mode 1894s in 32-40 and 38-55 have unmarked high strength steel barrels).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
I would assume the "Winchester High Velocity" on the letter refers to having a Nickel Steel barrel , a $2 option for cals 32-40, and 38-55. I have an 1894 38-55 from this same era , that is marked Nickel Steel on the barrel , and the Cody search letter specifies Nickel Steel instead of "Winchester High Velocity"
Edit Oops didnt see Berts reply saying the same
Thanks Bert and 25-20, thats a good piece of info. Just didnt put 2+2 together to draw the correlation between WHV and nickel steel barrel–Duuuh 
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
Iv had some experience with this guy!! He lies like a bed wetter stay far away!!
Bert when you say " Model 1894s in 32-40 and 38-55 have unmarked high strength steel barrels "
Do you figure that Winchester barrels were of a tougher grade of steel than other manufacturers of the era , such as Marlin , Remington , or Whitney Kennedy ? Some of these I have seen evidence marks of being rather soft
Phil
I "thought" I had read somewhere that when a gun lettered with the notation "Winchester High Velocity" that it meant that the gun was sighted in to use the WHV load. I thought I had read that on here at one point. Maybe I am mixing that up with something else, but that is what first popped to mind when I read the question.
Nice example on this letter:
http://www.rockislandauction.com/viewitem/aid/59/lid/1109
Matt
Matt,
You are remembering correctly. Winchester did use different (special) sights on the 32-40 and 38-55 Model 1894 rifles that letter as "W.H.V.", but they also will always have a Nickel Steel barrel. The exact same thing was done for all of the many Model 1885 Single Shot Rifles that letter as "W.H.V."
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
25-20 said
Bert when you say " Model 1894s in 32-40 and 38-55 have unmarked high strength steel barrels "Do you figure that Winchester barrels were of a tougher grade of steel than other manufacturers of the era , such as Marlin , Remington , or Whitney Kennedy ? Some of these I have seen evidence marks of being rather soft
Phil
Phil,
Winchester specifically discussed their "high strength steel" barrels in many of their early 1900s catalogs. I do not know if it was a tougher grade of steel as compared to their contemporary competition.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert – I have also always been curious about Winchester high velocity and your comment about always having a nickel steel barrel has peeked my curiosity. What about the model 92 – I have a 92 SRC, #359255, 38 W.C.F. which letters with the Winchester high velocity notation – it does not have a nickel steel barrel. It is an interesting gun with a rifle butt, plain wood stock and capped pistol grip which all letter. Thanks, Burt
Burt,
Have you checked to see what is marked on the bottom of the barrel under the forend stock and magazine tube?
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert – I have not had the gun apart and am reluctant to mess with a high condition gun like this one – the gun is clearly original but the barrel is not marked nickel steel – if you are ever up here I would let you take it apart. If it left the factory with a nickel steel barrel I assume that would have been noted in the ledger and consequently noted in the letter? I would not be able to identify a nickel steel barrel unless it was marked! FYI, it has proof marks on the barrel and receiver which is correct for the date (1907). When did Winchester start using nickel steel – I always thought it was late and that the nickel barrels were pretty rare. I have seen guns marked ‘nickel steel" and others marked "nickel steel barrel especially for smokeless powder" and it seems like they were always late production guns. All my model 53’s, both solid frame and takedown, are marked nickel steel. Thanks, Burt
Burt,
Winchesters that letter as "W.H.V." will in most cases be marked as such on the bottom of the barrel, and will also be marked "MNS","CNS", or "BNS", all of which are nickel steel barrels. I have seen some early Model 1894s in 32-40 and 38-55 that are not marked "NICKEL STEEL" on the barrel in plain view, but are marked underneath.
In regards to your question, Winchester developed and first began using nickel steel alloy barrels in early 1895 (for the Models 1894 and 1895). The barrels were nearly always marked "NICKEL STEEL BARREL ESPECIALLY FOR SMOKLESS POWDER". For the barrels made in black powder cartridges, the barrels were often just marked "NICKEL STEEL".
If the barrel was not externally marked "Nickel Steel", it most likely would not have been noted in the ledger records or on a Cody factory letter.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Burt Humphrey wrote:
I have also always been curious about Winchester high velocity and your comment about always having a nickel steel barrel has peeked my curiosity. What about the model 92 – I have a 92 SRC, #359255, 38 W.C.F. which letters with the Winchester high velocity notation – it does not have a nickel steel barrel. It is an interesting gun with a rifle butt, plain wood stock and capped pistol grip which all letter.
Could I please get some photos of the stamped writing on your rifle so that I can enter it into my research survey. I have often seen the WHV notation in the ledgers and wondered exactly what was different. If the only marking is under the fore end wood how in the world did the person compiling the ledgers know this in order to enter it? Is the barrel proof next to the caliber stamp or in front of the rear sight?
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=606355
Thanks
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
I think Bert has answered the question – the barrel on my gun is nickel steel and will be marked under the wood as he described – since the gun is not marked on the outside of the barrel it will not be noted in the ledger and consequently not noted in the letter. Thanks for the information Bert – after 40 years and at least a 100 Winchester levers it is amazing how much I don’t know about them! I have now got to thinking about ammo because I like to have a box of nice original ammo for my Winchesters – I was going to ask Bert about WHV ammo and then decided I would look in the Giles book and sure as hell it appears I do not have the appropriate ammo for my gun! I have the "1939" blue/yellow/red box, 180 grain, made by Winchester – certainly, it would shoot but Giles indicated they made Winchester High Velocity in 38-40 and there are nice pictures and quite a bit of information in the book . The ammo is rare and hard to come by so as you all know it will be expensive! I don’t know if the cartridges just had more powder or used a different powder but they were obviously a hotter load – many of the boxes in the Giles book have a tag on them that states "high velocity cartridges require special sight adjustment". Michael, I will try to take of picture of the barrel markings, proof marks and a copy of the letter and get it to you.Burt
January 26, 2011
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twobit said
Burt Humphrey wrote:I have also always been curious about Winchester high velocity and your comment about always having a nickel steel barrel has peeked my curiosity. What about the model 92 – I have a 92 SRC, #359255, 38 W.C.F. which letters with the Winchester high velocity notation – it does not have a nickel steel barrel. It is an interesting gun with a rifle butt, plain wood stock and capped pistol grip which all letter.
Could I please get some photos of the stamped writing on your rifle so that I can enter it into my research survey. I have often seen the WHV notation in the ledgers and wondered exactly what was different. If the only marking is under the fore end wood how in the world did the person compiling the ledgers know this in order to enter it? Is the barrel proof next to the caliber stamp or in front of the rear sight?
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=606355Thanks
Michael
I’m with Michael……….how did John Doe filling out the ledgers have a clue to write WHV if there’s nothing obvious on the barrel? Maybe there were tags or some other type of note with the specific guns.
~Gary~
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