Avatar
Please consider registering
Guest
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Register Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
1894 takedown that letters with 3 extra barrels
sp_NewTopic Add Topic
Avatar
Troutdale, OR
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1843
Member Since:
June 26, 2013
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
1
December 28, 2020 - 7:59 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Now here’s a super rare one.  What a shame the 3 extra barrels are no longer with the gun….Interesting all 4 barrels were in the same caliber and identical configuration.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/887570367

Don

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 10609
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
December 28, 2020 - 9:00 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

deerhunter said
Now here’s a super rare one.  What a shame the 3 extra barrels are no longer with the gun….Interesting all 4 barrels were in the same caliber and identical configuration.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/887570367

Don  

Don,

The seller is misinterpreting the CFM factory letter.  That rifle sold with a total of (3) 38-55 barrels not (4).  The ledger records do indeed include the barrel assembly that was on the rifle.  Still very rare though, and very odd that all the barrels were the same caliber and configuration.  I would have ordered a (3) barrel set in 38-55, 30 WCF, and 32 WS which were all interchangeable.

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
RickC
Guest
WACA Guest
3
December 28, 2020 - 12:37 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

Yes something seems odd that the other barrels are the same caliber. Friday quitting time maybe & other calibers weren’t recorded properly?
Still a unique rifle indeed.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1375
Member Since:
July 8, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
December 28, 2020 - 2:09 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I saw that gun as well, too bad it’s missing the extra barrel assemblies.  It would truly be a rarity if all intact. 

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 10
Member Since:
November 20, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
December 28, 2020 - 2:14 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Thanks for the interest in my rifle. I just posted an 1873 in the Swap Meet section, so checking the forum more than normal and saw this post. I don’t think I’m misinterpreting the ledger. The more common 2-barrel sets “letter” with a single “interchangeable barrel,” making a total of two barrel sets. This one clearly letters with three interchangeable barrels, making a total of four barrel sets (assuming logically that Winchester was consistent with how they recorded multi-barrel sets). I confirmed this in writing from the Cody museum recently. It doesn’t really matter, and I don’t mind the debate, but I wanted to point out my reasoning and the museum’s confirmation. ARMAX actually WAS inconsistent in how they recorded it, which creates some confusion. As for why the multiple barrels were ordered in the same configuration and caliber, anyone’s guess is as good as mine. But given the specificity on the ledger, I don’t think it was a recording error. And there are plenty of two barrel sets in the same caliber. Again, no one will ever know, but the evidence to me points toward it being ordered the way it letters.

Will

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 10609
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
December 28, 2020 - 5:46 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Will,

The ARMAX document is correct in this regard, and it shows just three barrel assemblies, as does the warehouse ledger record. “With three interchangeable barrels” means exactly that… three total barrel assemblies.

My theory on the three identical barrels (caliber & length) is that the original owner set up the sighting on each barrel for a specific range (distance) he intended to shoot, thereby eliminating the need to reset the sights on the fly when shooting the rifle.

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 10
Member Since:
November 20, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
December 28, 2020 - 11:01 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I thought the same about the barrels Bert, or at least thought it might have to do with different sets of sights for different shooting applications. Your idea about different ranges is equally plausible. 

As for the “3 interchangeable barrels” meaning it was a three barrel set, I respectfully do not agree and neither did the the Cody museum. By the logic you outlined, a typical two barrel set, which is always noted in the ledger with a single “interchangeable barrel” would not be a two barrel set. If the ledger noted “2 interchangeable barrels,” would you conclude that was a 2-barrel set as well? How do you explain what would have been a material difference in the way the factory recorded 2-barrel sets vs. sets with more than two barrels? I’m not asking to be a smart-a*#, I’m genuinely interested in how you’d explain the logic. Books and studies are never perfect, so I do not assume that ARMAX was perfect in the way it interpreted this record.

Anyway, it doesn’t matter as far as the rifle is concerned, and I hope a WACA member who appreciates it wins the auction. 

Will

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 516
Member Since:
April 1, 2005
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
8
December 28, 2020 - 11:29 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

good article in the Winter 1996 Collector on multiple barrel Winchesters – also, the topic was discussed in a previous post some years ago – I think the post title was Model 1894, 2 barrel set.

Avatar
Wisconsin
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4259
Member Since:
May 2, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
9
December 28, 2020 - 11:52 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

wg1776, I assume you have a copy of the ledger entry. How does it state it in it. I have a deluxe 73 in 22 caliber non takedown that letters with “2 extra barrels fitted fancy forearms complete magazines etc.” Does it have the word  Extra or abbreviation “Ex”?

Bob

WACA Life Member---
NRA Life Member----
Cody Firearms member since 1991
Researching the Winchester 1873's

73_86cutaway.jpg

Email: [email protected]

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4097
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10
December 29, 2020 - 12:00 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Very intriguing rifle.  Cool

Avatar
RickC
Guest
WACA Guest
11
December 29, 2020 - 12:07 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

1873man said
wg1776, I assume you have a copy of the ledger entry. How does it state it in it. I have a deluxe 73 in 22 caliber non takedown that letters with “2 extra barrels fitted fancy forearms complete magazines etc.” Does it have the word  Extra or abbreviation “Ex”?

Bob  

B22130CF-1345-4CC8-86E3-25EF13CD7281.jpegImage Enlarger

Avatar
Wisconsin
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4259
Member Since:
May 2, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
12
December 29, 2020 - 12:16 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Rick,

I’m talking about the ledger entry not the letter which is interpreted from the ledger. This is the ledger entry from mine line 97

Bob

ledger.jpgImage Enlarger

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments
WACA Life Member---
NRA Life Member----
Cody Firearms member since 1991
Researching the Winchester 1873's

73_86cutaway.jpg

Email: [email protected]

Avatar
RickC
Guest
WACA Guest
13
December 29, 2020 - 12:18 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Oops sorry Bob, and I’ve never seen that before. Now I’m really interested in this thread.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4097
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
14
December 29, 2020 - 12:52 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

So… how much more is this rifle worth given the information in the ledger?  Obviously, it is a rarity, but without the extra barrels, what sets this rifle apart is theoretical.  That is, obviously this rifle would be worth a large sum more were the extra barrels included.  Alas, they are not.  Yet… I wouldn’t say there won’t be some premium involved.  What do others think?

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 10
Member Since:
November 20, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
15
December 29, 2020 - 1:21 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Thanks Bob. I don’t have a picture of the ledger entry handy, but here’s a direct quote of what the Cody folks said about it, which includes the verbatim text of the ledger:

 

“Hey Will, I would read it as 3 extra barrels in that config. The record, in Winchester speak, reads “3 interc’s 38/55 Rd ½ Mag”. Let me know if you have other questions.”

 

I have no doubt this rifle was made with 4 sets of barrels, unless someone can explain the discrepancy in how the typical 2-barrel sets were recorded.

Will

Avatar
Wisconsin
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4259
Member Since:
May 2, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
16
December 29, 2020 - 2:10 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

steve004 said
So… how much more is this rifle worth given the information in the ledger?  Obviously, it is a rarity, but without the extra barrels, what sets this rifle apart is theoretical.  That is, obviously this rifle would be worth a large sum more were the extra barrels included.  Alas, they are not.  Yet… I wouldn’t say there won’t be some premium involved.  What do others think?  

I can’t speak for Will’s gun but when I bought mine, I paid what the gun was worth at the time with no extra barrels. The fact it lettered with extra barrels was neat for a 73 collector and probably pushed me to buy it. I was able to track its history back to a couple of sisters and in 1965 a neighbor traded some Peach Blow dishes to them for the gun. At that time the neighbor researched it and got a Winchester  letter and learned about the extra barrels but the barrels were never found at the sisters house. If there were the extra barrels it would of elevated the price up considerably.

Bob

WACA Life Member---
NRA Life Member----
Cody Firearms member since 1991
Researching the Winchester 1873's

73_86cutaway.jpg

Email: [email protected]

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 10609
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
17
December 29, 2020 - 2:41 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

steve004 said
So… how much more is this rifle worth given the information in the ledger?  Obviously, it is a rarity, but without the extra barrels, what sets this rifle apart is theoretical.  That is, obviously this rifle would be worth a large sum more were the extra barrels included.  Alas, they are not.  Yet… I wouldn’t say there won’t be some premium involved.  What do others think?  

Steve,

In my opinion, it is not worth a single dollar more, as it does not have the extra barrels with it.  Ask yourself this question… Why would I pay a premium for something that doesn’t exist, but should?  If anything, the fact that the rifle in question is incomplete per the factory records makes it a less desirable collectible.

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4097
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
18
December 29, 2020 - 2:49 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

1873man said

I can’t speak for Will’s gun but when I bought mine, I paid what the gun was worth at the time with no extra barrels. The fact it lettered with extra barrels was neat for a 73 collector and probably pushed me to buy it. I was able to track its history back to a couple of sisters and in 1965 a neighbor traded some Peach Blow dishes to them for the gun. At that time the neighbor researched it and got a Winchester  letter and learned about the extra barrels but the barrels were never found at the sisters house. If there were the extra barrels it would of elevated the price up considerably.

Bob  

Bob – that is really something – a M1873 that letters with extra barrels Cool

Avatar
RickC
Guest
WACA Guest
19
December 29, 2020 - 2:54 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

Bert H. said

Steve,

In my opinion, it is not worth a single dollar more, as it does not have the extra barrels with it.  Ask yourself this question… Why would I pay a premium for something that doesn’t exist, but should?  If anything, the fact that the rifle in question is incomplete per the factory records makes it a less desirable collectible.

Bert  

I’m on the same page as Bert. It’s a 38-55 rd bl now. Nice condition but as Bert said incomplete per factory records. No offence wg1776. It is what it is now.

Avatar
Wisconsin
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4259
Member Since:
May 2, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
20
December 29, 2020 - 3:01 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

steve004 said

Bob – that is really something – a M1873 that letters with extra barrels Cool  

I’ve been scratching my head trying to figure out why anyone would need extra barrels for a 22 especially ones that you would had to have a gunsmith change the barrel since its not a takedown 22. If the guy was a hard core shooter and have to replace a barrel after you shot it out but why the complete barrel assemblies. If it was different length shells, the elevator was capable of changing short to long or use the selector system found on some guns.

Bob

WACA Life Member---
NRA Life Member----
Cody Firearms member since 1991
Researching the Winchester 1873's

73_86cutaway.jpg

Email: [email protected]

Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 778
Currently Online: Burt Humphrey, 3Dub, deerhunter, Tony. R
Guest(s) 83
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
clarence: 6150
TXGunNut: 4864
Chuck: 4517
1873man: 4259
steve004: 4097
Big Larry: 2290
twobit: 2283
TR: 1690
mrcvs: 1656
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 17
Topics: 12499
Posts: 108509

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1727
Members: 8716
Moderators: 4
Admins: 3
Navigation