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1894 Receiver ??
June 12, 2021
8:38 pm
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No problem seeing where the hole has been filled here.

June 12, 2021
10:15 pm
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TXGunNut said
Must admit I had to look at an 1894 to see where the hole in this rifle was but once I did it is barely visible even on my lowly iPad. Very impressive work filling that hole. 

Good luck with that stubborn firing pin, Mark. Last one I did required bolt removal but I’m not sure why. Could have been 120+ years of grease and grit.

 

Mike  

Many of us have trained ourselves over decades to spot filled holes.  I learned my first lesson on this 40 years ago.  I bought a M1886 S.R.C., .45-90 at a gun show.  It had two filled holes in the receiver – probably for a Lyman No. 56 receiver sight.  I didn’t know to look for the holes.  The jerk that sold me the rifle surely knew they were there.  I was a very young collector at the time.  A friend of mine labeled many of the guys sitting behind gun show tables as members of the, “den of thieves.”  Surely this seller was a card-carrying member.  I know this description doesn’t fit everyone who sits on the other side of the table but getting burned carries a sting that last a long time.  Anyway, I’ve trained my eyes as best I can to see the outline of holes.  The problem with gun shows can be gun show light.  In fact, the last ’86 I bought at a gun show passed my eye test.  When I got out in the parking lot I decided to open the case up and take another look.  Sure enough, two tap holes in the side of the receiver.  I immediately re-entered the show and confronted the seller.  Talk about a Hollywood performance of pure shock on his part when I showed him the holes.  We resolved it to my satisfaction.

Related to the question posed in this thread, I am not a gunsmith.  I do not routinely take a screwdriver to vintage and collectable rifles.  The upside of this is I don’t bugger up collectible rifles.  The downside is I don’t have as much knowledge as I would if I routinely disassembled my rifles.  I’ve never taken a M1894 apart.  So I’m wondering how hard is it to get the bolt out?  It seems if you have the bolt out, an access hole in the receiver becomes a non-issue and the replacing the firing pin would be simply and easy?  I must be missing something.

June 12, 2021
10:57 pm
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Put a drop of acetone on the spot were the hole should be. I bet it shows up more clearly.

June 13, 2021
4:20 am
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For those that don’t know, the lever pin has to come out to get the bolt out. The lever pin also has to come out to get the firing pin out. The hole that is supposed to be on the right side of the receiver is to allow a punch to push the lever pin out the left side of the receiver through the hole under the plug screw. The pin in the back of the bolt keeps the firing pin in the bolt once the bolt is out of the gun.

Tried the acetone. There is absolutely no sign that there was ever a hole in the receiver, neither on the outside nor the inside. Several others have examined the receiver first hand and can not see any sign that there was ever a hole. It would have made no sense to fill this hole anyhow. The gun is in really nice shape for its age. Most likely was hung on the wall after the firing pin broke as there was no way to replace it.

As far as buggereing up collectible rifles, with the proper know how and tools maintaining any firearm is easily done without causing any damage.

June 13, 2021
12:27 pm
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mark minnillo said
For those that don’t know, the lever pin has to come out to get the bolt out. The lever pin also has to come out to get the firing pin out. The hole that is supposed to be on the right side of the receiver is to allow a punch to push the lever pin out the left side of the receiver through the hole under the plug screw. The pin in the back of the bolt keeps the firing pin in the bolt once the bolt is out of the gun.

Tried the acetone. There is absolutely no sign that there was ever a hole in the receiver, neither on the outside nor the inside. Several others have examined the receiver first hand and can not see any sign that there was ever a hole. It would have made no sense to fill this hole anyhow. The gun is in really nice shape for its age. Most likely was hung on the wall after the firing pin broke as there was no way to replace it.

As far as buggereing up collectible rifles, with the proper know how and tools maintaining any firearm is easily done without causing any damage.  

Mark –

Thank you for the explanation on the pins.  I figured it would have to be something like that.  The situation with your rifle is perplexing.  First, you have the situation that those who have actually had their hands on the rifle and able to examine it in the flesh can’t see a hole.  A final thought on that – have you tried Bert’s suggestion of using a magnification loupe to examine where the hole should be?  And, additional factor is you have also provided a photo and examined the inside of the receiver and found no indication of a plugged hole.

Another factor that adds to the puzzle is there is no reason for the hole to be plugged.  It sounds like this rifle was a hunter so there has not been incentive for anyone to plug that hole.  Not that there ever was incentive as it would be a mistaken assumption to think a hole shouldn’t be in that location.  I marvel over a scenario of how this mistake could have happened.  How difficult is it to look at another M1894 – or even a photo of one on the internet – to know that a hole is supposed to be there?  Next, let’s say the rifle owner doesn’t do what I suggested and decide they have need to have that hole filled.  To bring that rifle to a gunsmith with the experience and expertise to hide a hole that well… surely they would say something to the customer like, “you know that hole is supposed to be there!”  Even a gunsmith not familiar with Model 1894’s at all, wouldn’t they find it odd that this, “extra hole” is just a hole and not threaded?  What could it possibly have been used for if it was an added hole?

On the topic of buggering up collectible rifles, mistakes and slips and, “oops” can happen.  This reminds me of the medical field where theoretically proper know-how and tools are used.  Yet…. medical error is the third leading cause of death in this country, right behind heart disease and cancer Frown

June 13, 2021
1:31 pm
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 My eyes are old and so is my computer, what I see is an old 1894 receiver with original blue and normal forging marks. If the forging marks go threw where the plug is suppose to be, there is no plug. If the receiver is heated and an outline of the plug does not show, there is no plug.

 In the aviation field we use non-distructive testing methods, on steel we use Magneflux. It does not damage the part or it’s blued finish. The part is magnetized and a florescence magnetic  solution is applied and examined with a black light. Any seam or crack in the steel shows up as a line. This process allows you to quickly and clearly see crack not visible to the eye. With the part in my hand and 3 minutes my old eyes would know. If it was an aircraft part it would take me longer to do the FAA paper work than the test. T/R 

June 13, 2021
2:28 pm
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TR said
 My eyes are old and so is my computer, what I see is an old 1894 receiver with original blue and normal forging marks. If the forging marks go threw where the plug is suppose to be, there is no plug. If the receiver is heated and an outline of the plug does not show, there is no plug.

 In the aviation field we use non-distructive testing methods, on steel we use Magneflux. It does not damage the part or it’s blued finish. The part is magnetized and a florescence magnetic  solution is applied and examined with a black light. Any seam or crack in the steel shows up as a line. This process allows you to quickly and clearly see crack not visible to the eye. With the part in my hand and 3 minutes my old eyes would know. If it was an aircraft part it would take me longer to do the FAA paper work than the test. T/R   

Another simple option would be to drill a hole where one is supposed to be.  It’s not like the rifle wouldn’t be, “right” as a result.

June 13, 2021
3:12 pm
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TR said
 My eyes are old and so is my computer, what I see is an old 1894 receiver with original blue and normal forging marks. If the forging marks go threw where the plug is suppose to be, there is no plug. If the receiver is heated and an outline of the plug does not show, there is no plug.

 In the aviation field we use non-distructive testing methods, on steel we use Magneflux. It does not damage the part or it’s blued finish. The part is magnetized and a florescence magnetic  solution is applied and examined with a black light. Any seam or crack in the steel shows up as a line. This process allows you to quickly and clearly see crack not visible to the eye. With the part in my hand and 3 minutes my old eyes would know. If it was an aircraft part it would take me longer to do the FAA paper work than the test. T/R   

TR,

You are correct, the gun has the original finish. The forging marks are what make me so sure that the hole has not been filled as they go right through where the hole is supposed to be. I appreciate your thoughts.

June 13, 2021
4:23 pm
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 Another option is to drill and tap the pin from the other side, turn in a screw and extract it. The hole and threads will not show and if it bothers you replace the pin with the threads in it. Drilling a receiver is not what I would do! T/R

June 13, 2021
4:35 pm
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TR said
 Another option is to drill and tap the pin from the other side, turn in a screw and extract it. The hole and threads will not show and if it bothers you replace the pin with the threads in it. Drilling a receiver is not what I would do! T/R  

There is some irony here – where drilling a receiver would make it, “right”  Wink

June 13, 2021
5:01 pm
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TR said
 My eyes are old and so is my computer, what I see is an old 1894 receiver with original blue and normal forging marks. If the forging marks go threw where the plug is suppose to be, there is no plug.

That is exactly what I am seeing as well.  The forge marks pass directly through the area where the access hole should be. 

 

steve004 said

Another simple option would be to drill a hole where one is supposed to be.  It’s not like the rifle wouldn’t be, “right” as a result.  

That wouldnt be my first choice.

TR said
 Another option is to drill and tap the pin from the other side, turn in a screw and extract it. The hole and threads will not show and if it bothers you replace the pin with the threads in it. Drilling a receiver is not what I would do! T/R  

Depending on how tight that lever pin is in the bolt, I thought maybe you could use inertia to get it to move.  The better option is as TR mentioned, drilling the lever pin and using a screw or star chuck to turn and break free to extract, and it doesnt involve damaging the receiver.  Replacement lever pins are easy to find if needed.   

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June 13, 2021
7:35 pm
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You will not be able to drill and tap the lever pin as there is nothing to keep the pin from spinning when attempting to drill or tap it. The pins generally do not offer much resistance when removing them. I would try lining the pin up with the plug hole and hosing it down with brake klean to remove or displace as much crud and sludge from the pin area and us a small cylindrical magnet to try and remove it. I would do this operation with the rifle upside down in a rifle vise to avoid getting the brake klean from getting on the wood. It may also help to have a third hand to slightly wiggle the lever to remove any bind on the pin while attempting to extract it with a magnet. If this doesn’t work, I wouldn’t hesitate to put the “missing hole” back in the receiver so the rifle can be properly disassembled. If it’s positioned properly and the correct diameter with a drop of cold blue no one will ever know.  After all, it’s NOT an extra hole, it’s a receiver that should not have passed inspection.  Then again maybe it’s like a misprinted piece of currency, makes it worth more as an anomaly than a properly finished receiver but that’s above my pay grade.  Just my .02…..

 

Erin

June 13, 2021
8:31 pm
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Erin Grivicich said
You will not be able to drill and tap the lever pin as there is nothing to keep the pin from spinning when attempting to drill or tap it. The pins generally do not offer much resistance when removing them. I would try lining the pin up with the plug hole and hosing it down with brake klean to remove or displace as much crud and sludge from the pin area and us a small cylindrical magnet to try and remove it. I would do this operation with the rifle upside down in a rifle vise to avoid getting the brake klean from getting on the wood. It may also help to have a third hand to slightly wiggle the lever to remove any bind on the pin while attempting to extract it with a magnet. If this doesn’t work, I wouldn’t hesitate to put the “missing hole” back in the receiver so the rifle can be properly disassembled. If it’s positioned properly and the correct diameter with a drop of cold blue no one will ever know.  After all, it’s NOT an extra hole, it’s a receiver that should not have passed inspection.  Then again maybe it’s like a misprinted piece of currency, makes it worth more as an anomaly than a properly finished receiver but that’s above my pay grade.  Just my .02…..

 

Erin  

My thought also was to try and drill the pin but came to the same conclusion as you about the pin spinning. However, spinning the pin might not be a bad thing to loosen it.

Does the gun have increased value not having the hole???

June 13, 2021
9:56 pm
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 Mark, When it comes to Colt SAA I remember owners having markings added or changed because owners thought they were wrong, only later to have John Kopec discover it was a small group of s/n that were made by Colt that way. Did it change the value? If it was non factory work pointed out in John’s letter it decreased the value.

  In the case of your 1894 there is no such thing as a Kopec Gold seal letter so who knows, your guess is as good as anyone. I suspect when you bought the gun you didn’t notice and the next buyer won’t either. But once you drill you have a hole! T/R

June 13, 2021
10:07 pm
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TR said
  But once you drill you have a hole! T/R  

But he would have a hole right where one is supposed to be Laugh

June 13, 2021
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 Steve, He would have a non-factory drilled hole in an original receiver with pictures all over the internet that show it at one time did not have the hole. This gun is very visible forever and probably listed on someone’s survey by serial as not having a hole.  It happens all the time on Colts. When you call Kopec he will tell you what the gun was when and when he’s gone his records will be passed on to some else. Surveys, auctions, the Forum, books, and the internet lock a gun in it’s condition.  But the hole would be in the right place. T/R 

June 14, 2021
12:07 am
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I first picture posted I can kind of see what Bert was seeing but on the later pictures I can no longer see it and the forging marks go through where the hole would be. I took the images and played with them in a photo editor and it could not pull anything out. I would leave as is and work around the issue.

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June 14, 2021
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TR said
 Steve, He would have a non-factory drilled hole in an original receiver with pictures all over the internet that show it at one time did not have the hole. This gun is very visible forever and probably listed on someone’s survey by serial as not having a hole.  It happens all the time on Colts. When you call Kopec he will tell you what the gun was when and when he’s gone his records will be passed on to some else. Surveys, auctions, the Forum, books, and the internet lock a gun in it’s condition.  But the hole would be in the right place. T/R   

That is a point.  Once it is placed in the internet, it can’t be taken back.  Still, it’s ironic that it could be accused of being, “not right,” when it would be right – it would like every other ’94 out there that has a hole in that spot.  Also, note that some here believe the receiver had the hole and was filled in.  So, was an old plugged hole opened up again or a new hole put in?  Other than the person doing it, no one could say for sure.

June 14, 2021
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I have to agree with TR above.  The absence of the lever pin access hole is an anomaly, much like other things out there that just arent supposed to be.  Do these little anomalies bring any added value, not much if any to me, they are more of a novelty.  By hook or by crook I would try to figure out an alternate way of getting the lever pin out.  I wouldnt begin to consider drilling a new hole in an otherwise unmolested receiver, whether it should be there or not. 

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June 14, 2021
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To those of you who have provided positive insight I thank you all for your thoughts.  To those of you who simply assume that someone posting something out of the ordinary is ignorant and that the gun is incorrect, well I won’t even go there.

I have no intention of removing the pin by having the receiver drilled.  Most smiths I have talked with agree that to get the hole in the correct location would almost certainly require the hole to be drilled from the left side of the receiver through the plug screw hole hence the pin has to come out first anyhow.  I am going to send the receiver to Wild West Guns in Anchorage (I am in Southeast Alaska) and let them have a go at drilling and removing the pin.  Although we all agree that drilling will be difficult as the pin is likely to spin, the smith at WWG thinks he can make it work.  If this thread is still around I will report back with the outcome.  Quite the head scratcher.

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