Avatar
Please consider registering
Guest
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Register Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
1894 receiver no.
sp_NewTopic Add Topic
Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 228
Member Since:
March 15, 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
June 17, 2021 - 9:02 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Madis book says no assembly no. on 94s. I just noticed on my 94 the no. 47 stamped immediately in front of trigger. Bert says my 94 was made in May 1938. Is there some significance to this no. ? Don

Avatar
Troutdale, OR
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1861
Member Since:
June 26, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
June 17, 2021 - 9:30 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

All my 94’s have assembly numbers so don’t know what Madis is talking about.  There’s nothing really special about them.

Don

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1543
Member Since:
May 23, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
June 17, 2021 - 9:46 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Well now gentlemen I think we are cutting hairs here. But I believe your seeing an Inspector’s mark, regarding the 47 in front of the trigger. But I also do believe there are assembly numbers located on the tangs. And would mostly agree there’s nothing special about them. But there are exceptions, like when you find a Winchester where the numbers are XXX out and a newer set of numbers has been applied, that is somewhat special. 

I’d have to see exactly on what page and edition of the Winchester Book that old George was exactly referring to.

Sincerely,

Maverick

Avatar
Wisconsin
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4270
Member Since:
May 2, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
June 17, 2021 - 10:33 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

The little numbers next to the hammer are inspector stamps just like Maverick said and some 94’s do have assemble numbers on the side of the lower tang. Here is a Extra light weight that has a assemble number, grade of wood and RB for Rubber Butt

IMG_2598.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_3605.JPGImage Enlarger

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments
WACA Life Member---
NRA Life Member----
Cody Firearms member since 1991
Researching the Winchester 1873's

73_86cutaway.jpg

Email: [email protected]

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 228
Member Since:
March 15, 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
June 17, 2021 - 11:37 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Madis book 1985, page 405 at bottom “assembly numbers were not used on standard arms”. The no. 47 is stamped on bottom of receiver immediately in front of trigger. This is a plain-jane 30-30 carbine. I removed the butt stock and butt plate and found nothing. Bert says made in May 1938. As stated, this is probably an inspectors stamp. Don

Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4889
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
June 18, 2021 - 3:08 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

86Win said
Madis book 1985, page 405 at bottom “assembly numbers were not used on standard arms”….(snip!) Don  

That’s true for most models as far as I know. Assembly numbers were only necessary for special models with special wood or other features. They aren’t found on standard production guns as far as I know, none of mine have them.

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 10641
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
June 18, 2021 - 3:53 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

86Win said
Madis book says no assembly no. on 94s. I just noticed on my 94 the no. 47 stamped immediately in front of trigger. Bert says my 94 was made in May 1938. Is there some significance to this no. ? Don  

Don,

The “47” marking you refer to is an inspector’s stamp.  Assembly numbers typically are not visible without some disassembly.  Madis was dead wrong about “no assembly numbers on standard 94s”.

The attached pictures show the assembly numbers stamped on Model 1894 standard Sporting Rifle S/N 269

thumbnail_image0.jpgImage Enlargerthumbnail_image2.jpgImage EnlargerFull-length-RS.jpgImage EnlargerSN-269.jpgImage Enlarger

Bert

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 228
Member Since:
March 15, 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
8
June 18, 2021 - 2:06 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Bert

 Is it possible that the machining of parts became so precise that assembly nos. and hand fitting became unnecessary? Your SN 269 is obviously quite old. Don

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 10641
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
9
June 18, 2021 - 3:11 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

86Win said
Bert

 Is it possible that the machining of parts became so precise that assembly nos. and hand fitting became unnecessary? Your SN 269 is obviously quite old. Don  

Don,

S/N 269 is not my rifle.  The information and pictures were provided to me my the owner shortly after he acquired it so that I could document it in my research survey of the First Model 1894s.

In regards to the machining and hand fitting process that Winchester used, it continued for several decades (years) after this rifle was manufactured.  Quite frankly, I was surprised by the assembly numbers on this rifle, and I do not know how frequently assembly numbers were stamped on the early production Model 1894s… I would love to be able to inspect at least 4-5 dozen of the early production First Models to see if any pattern develops.

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Ohio
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 383
Member Since:
May 26, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10
June 18, 2021 - 10:15 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Would barrel date help confirm the 1938 production question, or were they just taking barrels out of a bin at that point? I would assume since it’s pre war(ww ll) the barrel dates would still be legit? I could/ might be wrong, just wondering.

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 10641
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
11
June 19, 2021 - 2:03 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Bill Hanzel said
Would barrel date help confirm the 1938 production question, or were they just taking barrels out of a bin at that point? I would assume since it’s pre war(ww ll) the barrel dates would still be legit? I could/ might be wrong, just wondering.  

Bill,

The S/N positively confirmed that Don’s Model 94 was manufactured in May, 1938.  The barrel date would just be an interesting tidbit of additional information.  I suspect that it will have a “38” marked barrel, but it could just as easily be one or two years different. 

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 228
Member Since:
March 15, 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
12
June 19, 2021 - 3:12 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Hi Bert

Just pulled my 1938 winchester model 1894 carbines magazine and found 38 stamped in front of receiver, 30WCF in front of that and a 3 stamped cross-wise in front. Could this be an assembly no.? Don

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 10641
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
13
June 19, 2021 - 4:21 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

86Win said
Hi Bert

Just pulled my 1938 winchester model 1894 carbines magazine and found 38 stamped in front of receiver, 30WCF in front of that and a 3 stamped cross-wise in front. Could this be an assembly no.? Don  

Don,

I have not ever found a Model 1894/94 with an assembly number stamped on the underside of the barrel.  Typically, the stamped markings that are not self-explanatory are inspector stamps.  In general, “assembly” numbers are usually found on the side edge of the upper or lower tang (most frequently on the left side edge of the lower tang), in the butt stock upper tang channel, the end grain of the butt stock (underneath the butt plate), and on the inside surface of the butt plate.  Less frequently, an assembly number can be found on the end grain of a forend stock or in the barrel channel.

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
South Texas
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1041
Member Since:
March 20, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
14
June 21, 2021 - 6:19 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Bert,

Thanks for sharing the info on the assembly numbers on that standard first model 1894.  Ive not come across assembly numbers on a standard rifle in my travels.  

DSC_0245-Copy-3.JPG

1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member

"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 197
Member Since:
January 28, 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
15
June 23, 2021 - 9:40 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Bert H. said

86Win said
Madis book says no assembly no. on 94s. I just noticed on my 94 the no. 47 stamped immediately in front of trigger. Bert says my 94 was made in May 1938. Is there some significance to this no. ? Don  

Don,

The “47” marking you refer to is an inspector’s stamp.  Assembly numbers typically are not visible without some disassembly.  Madis was dead wrong about “no assembly numbers on standard 94s”.

The attached pictures show the assembly numbers stamped on Model 1894 standard Sporting Rifle S/N 269

thumbnail_image0.jpgImage Enlargerthumbnail_image2.jpgImage EnlargerFull-length-RS.jpgImage EnlargerSN-269.jpgImage Enlarger

Bert  

Bert,

Did the 269 rifle have a factory letter with it?  Was there any sign that the rifle had gone back to Winchester for any work such as re-blue, re-barrel, etc.?

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 10641
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
16
June 24, 2021 - 1:14 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

mark minnillo said

Bert,

Did the 269 rifle have a factory letter with it?  Was there any sign that the rifle had gone back to Winchester for any work such as re-blue, re-barrel, etc.?  

Here is your answer to both of your questions…

CFM-worksheet-269.jpgImage Enlarger

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 197
Member Since:
January 28, 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
17
June 24, 2021 - 3:44 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Bert H. said

Here is your answer to both of your questions…

CFM-worksheet-269.jpgImage Enlarger  

Interesting. The 94s (and other models) I have seen with assembly numbers were special feature guns or guns that went for repair. I’ll bet the 269 gun went for repair at one time in its life.

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 10641
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
18
June 24, 2021 - 4:10 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

mark minnillo said

Interesting. The 94s (and other models) I have seen with assembly numbers were special feature guns or guns that went for repair. I’ll bet the 269 gun went for repair at one time in its life.  

I disagree with your “bet” statement.  Winchester did not stamp “assembly” numbers on guns that were returned for repair/rework.  Instead, they stamped work order numbers on them.  Further, as of this time, I have not ever encountered a “work order number” stamped on the stock in the upper tang channel.  It is my belief that the numbers stamped on S/N 269 have been there since the day it was manufactured, and that they are in fact “assembly” numbers.

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 197
Member Since:
January 28, 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
19
June 24, 2021 - 5:49 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Bert H. said

I disagree with your “bet” statement.  Winchester did not stamp “assembly” numbers on guns that were returned for repair/rework.  Instead, they stamped work order numbers on them.  Further, as of this time, I have not ever encountered a “work order number” stamped on the stock in the upper tang channel.  It is my belief that the numbers stamped on S/N 269 have been there since the day it was manufactured, and that they are in fact “assembly” numbers.  

My apologies for misspeaking, I meant work order numbers on guns for repair.  I believe that is what the 3 digit number on the 269 gun was for.  Makes sense that if the gun was disassembled, the stock removed from the rest of the gun, the parts would be numbered to keep the parts together.  Perhaps this was done at Winchester or by an outside gunsmith.  The location, right side of top tang and upside down, of the number is also quite odd for it to be an assembly number.

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 10641
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
20
June 24, 2021 - 6:27 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

mark minnillo said

My apologies for misspeaking, I meant work order numbers on guns for repair.  I believe that is what the 3 digit number on the 269 gun was for.  Makes sense that if the gun was disassembled, the stock removed from the rest of the gun, the parts would be numbered to keep the parts together.  Perhaps this was done at Winchester or by an outside gunsmith.  The location, right side of top tang and upside down, of the number is also quite odd for it to be an assembly number.  

Several issues with your theory;

(1) There is no “R&R” entry in the records for this rifle.  Based on its physical appearance and condition, it shows no signs what-so-ever of having been “repaired”.

(2) The numbers stamped on the upper tang and in the upper tang channel have by all visual clues, been there for a very long time, and again, I have never encountered a “work order” number stamped into the upper tang stock channel.  I have observed them stamped on the end grain of the butt stock.

(3) I have seen multiple specimens with markings on the edge of the upper tang, and some of them were “up side down”.

(4) It is very unlikely that an outside gun smith would feel the need to stamp numbers on a repair project gun.

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 778
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
clarence: 6168
TXGunNut: 4889
Chuck: 4528
1873man: 4270
steve004: 4108
Big Larry: 2297
twobit: 2284
TR: 1699
mrcvs: 1673
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 17
Topics: 12526
Posts: 108827

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1731
Members: 8738
Moderators: 4
Admins: 3
Navigation