Avatar
Please consider registering
Guest
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Register Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
1894 French Contract Carbines
sp_NewTopic Add Topic
Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1541
Member Since:
May 23, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
January 23, 2023 - 2:58 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

To All,

Here is an interesting video and website in French discussing the 1894 French Contract Carbines.

https://www.laipublications.com/livre/le-feu-aux-poudres-recueil-des-scriptes/la-winchester-1894-dans-larmee-francaise/

It is interesting to me to see them shooting it. I don’t know if its a French thing or just the fact that it is a younger person shooting. But I’ve never understood guys that have to dismount from their shoulder in order to chamber and fire the next round when shooting any Winchester.

I’ve always had no trouble keeping the firearm at my shoulder when levering the next round when firing. No matter the model Winchester. I can understand why some people do this with the 95, as it is the hardest in my opinion, due to long stroke length. 

Each their own I suppose.

Sincerely,

Maverick 

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 6148
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
January 23, 2023 - 4:29 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

Maverick said
It is interesting to me to see them shooting it. I don’t know if its a French thing or just the fact that it is a younger person shooting. But I’ve never understood guys that have to dismount from their shoulder in order to chamber and fire the next round when shooting any Winchester.

  

Certainly not either a French or young person thing; hand a ’94 to anyone inexperienced with lever actions & observe how they shoot it.  

But that’s not what’s most interesting in this video, which is the collection of Model 1915 “Adrian” helmets, the first steel helmet used in WWI, & eventually accepted & copied by every nation in the war, except Britain, the US, & of course Germany.  After the war it was adopted by countries from China to Mexico.  Both Patton & MacArthur wore them in preference to the US “Doughboy” issue.  I wear mine while watching WWI movies.

Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 804
Member Since:
March 23, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
January 23, 2023 - 1:11 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

 Interesting video.Thanks for posting.As to the shooting style,I wonder if these firearms had nor been used for awhile and were sticky, needing some cleaning and oiling?

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 6148
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
January 23, 2023 - 2:41 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

28 gauge said
 As to the shooting style,I wonder if these firearms had nor been used for awhile and were sticky, needing some cleaning and oiling?

  

Looked very sticky, & maybe not well broken in; compared to the feel of the ’86 & ’92 designs, the ’94 is definitely balky until it’s seen a good deal of use, & even then not as smooth as the earlier actions.

Avatar
ME
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 477
Member Since:
March 14, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
January 23, 2023 - 3:50 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I was aware of the 44A rear sight marked in meters on French Contract carbines but didn’t remember W or M(upside down W) was stamped on the swivel bases until I watched the video.

0F3ED411-6F20-4454-B06E-49486EE9CCBE.jpegImage Enlarger

 RickC 

   

Avatar
Northeast Washington
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 184
Member Since:
July 3, 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
January 23, 2023 - 4:48 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

The story of how Remington played a role in their acquisition is very interesting.  It was the sight markings & swivels that caused me to do more research on this rifle after I obtained this rifle in a group from an estate.  Almost paid for the entire group of rifles when I sold it….

Image EnlargerImage Enlarger

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4513
Member Since:
March 31, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
January 23, 2023 - 6:11 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

clarence said
  I wear mine while watching WWI movies.

  

Thanks, Clarence.  Maybe thanks isn’t the right word.  I’ll have that image in my mind every time I watch a war movie.

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 6148
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
8
January 23, 2023 - 7:34 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

Chuck said

clarence said

  I wear mine while watching WWI movies.

  

Thanks, Clarence.  Maybe thanks isn’t the right word.  I’ll have that image in my mind every time I watch a war movie.

  

Even though I grew up watching WWII docs in the early days of TV, when programmers were short of commercial TV progams, I’ve always been more fascinated by the much more horrific Great War.  In the last several yrs, some extraordinarily fine WWI documentaries have become available on streaming services such as NatGeo, Amazon, & my favorite, Curiosity Stream–stuff that you’d NEVER see on commercial channels.  Best of them is a 5-part series called Apocalypse WWI, in which the original B&W film stock has been colorized in such a true-to-live way that it’s really hard to believe you aren’t watching original color film; details of weapons, uniforms, etc., are much sharper than in B&W.  Most commercially-produced war moves are 3.2 beer compared to this actual on the battleground film footage, & NO fakey CGI special effects! 

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1541
Member Since:
May 23, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
9
January 23, 2023 - 8:46 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

clarence said Even though I grew up watching WWII docs in the early days of TV, when programmers were short of commercial TV progams, I’ve always been more fascinated by the much more horrific Great War.  In the last several yrs, some extraordinarily fine WWI documentaries have become available on streaming services such as NatGeo, Amazon, & my favorite, Curiosity Stream–stuff that you’d NEVER see on commercial channels.  Best of them is a 5-part series called Apocalypse WWI, in which the original B&W film stock has been colorized in such a true-to-live way that it’s really hard to believe you aren’t watching original color film; details of weapons, uniforms, etc., are much sharper than in B&W.  Most commercially-produced war moves are 3.2 beer compared to this actual on the battleground film footage, & NO fakey CGI special effects! 

  Have you seen Peter Jackson’s WWI documentary “They Shall Not Grow Old”. It is very well done. They have gone through with AI and fixed the odd timing and unstable camera movements. It looks like smooth video you would shoot today. The only thing I really noticed is that the coloring of the film is slightly off. But is far batter than any other colorization of the old footage I’ve seen to date.

Sincerely,

Maverick

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 6148
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10
January 23, 2023 - 9:51 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Maverick said
Have you seen Peter Jackson’s WWI documentary “They Shall Not Grow Old”. It is very well done. They have gone through with AI and fixed the odd timing and unstable camera movements. It looks like smooth video you would shoot today. The only thing I really noticed is that the coloring of the film is slightly off. But is far batter than any other colorization of the old footage I’ve seen to date.

  

No, but if I can find it on my Roku service, I certainly will.  I repeat, the colorization of the Apocalypse series is phenomenal, but it’s a French-made doc, & after watching scores of other French historical docs, I don’t hesitate to say that, in general, they are superior to most British docs; the narration of course is English.

Have heard much ado about the new remake of All Quiet on the Western Front.  Hard to believe it could surpass the 1930 original, & I’d be amazed if it’s not stuffed to the gills with CGI fakery, gigantic firey explosions, etc.

Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 9
Member Since:
August 28, 2023
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
11
August 28, 2023 - 1:11 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

Hi everyone and greetings from Belgium.

I am a newbee on this forum.

Belgium is next to France, in the North. About a year or two ago, here in Belgium, I bought myself a 94 that was not in the best shape. It had been tangled with a very long time ago, obviously, because it had swivels on the left side of the gun that were on there for a very long time. Didn’t notice at that time that the rear sight was in meters. Just checked if there was no wobble in it.

The guy from the gunshop said that the gun came from an elderly man who had it from his grandfather and wanted to sell it as it was doing nothing but collecting dust in his house. The guy said that indeed it was not as it should have been, none of his clients had wanted it because of the tangling with the wood and he sold it to me for 200 euro (about 200 USD).

Now, here it comes: The day before yesterday, on my birthday, I was wondering around a bit to read about the Russian contract 1895 and stumbled on some real interesting sites. Not about the 95 but about the 94 French contract. And yes, you did guess well: Boy, was I surprised to read about the swivels being original on the French contract 94s’!!! Immediately, I checked for those Belgian Congo-marks but it had none of those. But what I did see, was the markings on the swivels (curly looking W (Winchester?)). So, I got a bit more comfortable. Then, I also checked the rear sight and YES! it is in meters.

The serial number is 679453 and that puts it in the range of the french contrat (I think). Could it be that I had myself a real awesome birthday gift in my hands? If that is the case, I guess it would be worth a bit more than the 200 that I paid for it, wouldn’t it?

Could any of you help me out a bit? If it isn’t a French contract, I promise that I will love it just the same.

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 10604
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
12
August 28, 2023 - 3:58 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

CowboyBelge said
Hi everyone and greetings from Belgium.

I am a newbee on this forum.

Belgium is next to France, in the North. About a year or two ago, here in Belgium, I bought myself a 94 that was not in the best shape. It had been tangled with a very long time ago, obviously, because it had swivels on the left side of the gun that were on there for a very long time. Didn’t notice at that time that the rear sight was in meters. Just checked if there was no wobble in it.

The guy from the gunshop said that the gun came from an elderly man who had it from his grandfather and wanted to sell it as it was doing nothing but collecting dust in his house. The guy said that indeed it was not as it should have been, none of his clients had wanted it because of the tangling with the wood and he sold it to me for 200 euro (about 200 USD).

Now, here it comes: The day before yesterday, on my birthday, I was wondering around a bit to read about the Russian contract 1895 and stumbled on some real interesting sites. Not about the 95 but about the 94 French contract. And yes, you did guess well: Boy, was I surprised to read about the swivels being original on the French contract 94s’!!! Immediately, I checked for those Belgian Congo-marks but it had none of those. But what I did see, was the markings on the swivels (curly looking W (Winchester?)). So, I got a bit more comfortable. Then, I also checked the rear sight and YES! it is in meters.

The serial number is 679453 and that puts it in the range of the french contrat (I think). Could it be that I had myself a real awesome birthday gift in my hands? If that is the case, I guess it would be worth a bit more than the 200 that I paid for it, wouldn’t it?

Could any of you help me out a bit? If it isn’t a French contract, I promise that I will love it just the same. 

Based on your description of the gun, it certainly appears to be one of the 15,100 Winchester Model 1894 Carbines that the Winchester Repeating Arms Company sold to the French Government.  The S/N indicates that it was manufactured in early July, 1914.  If possible, please send several clear digital pictures of the gun and all of the markings on it to me at – [email protected]

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 9
Member Since:
August 28, 2023
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
13
August 28, 2023 - 10:11 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Thanks for the fast response, Bert.

When I checked the swivels, it was night. Today, during daylight, I had a better look and cleaned the swivels to take a picture for you. What appeared to be a marking on the front swivel, was only some dirt that looked like a markingFrown. Or do they not all have to have that W-marking?

The rear swivel showed half of the W (last part) and that was clear.

Took pictures of everything that seemed important and sent you a mail.

Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 9
Member Since:
August 28, 2023
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
14
August 30, 2023 - 10:29 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

A word of thanks and appreciation:

Bert has put a lot of efforts in examining the pictures that I sent to him of my model 94 and figuring out about the sling mounts.

Today he sent me the good news that my gun is an authentic French contract.

Thanks a lot, Bert. And much obliged for your work.

Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 12
Member Since:
March 5, 2023
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
15
September 3, 2023 - 1:27 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

CowboyBelge said
A word of thanks and appreciation:

Bert has put a lot of efforts in examining the pictures that I sent to him of my model 94 and figuring out about the sling mounts.

Today he sent me the good news that my gun is an authentic French contract.

Thanks a lot, Bert. And much obliged for your work.

  

Like!

Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4860
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
16
September 3, 2023 - 2:28 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

CowboyBelge said
A word of thanks and appreciation:

Bert has put a lot of efforts in examining the pictures that I sent to him of my model 94 and figuring out about the sling mounts.

Today he sent me the good news that my gun is an authentic French contract.

Thanks a lot, Bert. And much obliged for your work.

  

Congratulations, Werner, greeting from Texas! I haven’t visited Belgium since I was 12 but even then I knew it was more than “the country next to France”. I can only imagine the challenges of collecting Winchesters so I’m very grateful that your 94 is indeed a special rifle.

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 9
Member Since:
August 28, 2023
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
17
September 3, 2023 - 8:31 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

TXGunNut said
 

Congratulations, Werner, greeting from Texas! I haven’t visited Belgium since I was 12 but even then I knew it was more than “the country next to France”. I can only imagine the challenges of collecting Winchesters so I’m very grateful that your 94 is indeed a special rifle.

Mike 

Thanks Mike but I didn’t know it was a special one at the time I bought it. I just thought ‘that cr*ppy wood with sling mounts is the very first thing that I will replace as soon as I get home with it’. Now I think a bit different. The old furniture will go back on it as soon as I have restaurated the cracks in it.

By the way: Belgium is not ‘next’ to France. We are ABOVE them in every way, haha.

(that is not true but it sounded funny)

But what ABSOLUTELY ís true, is that we have the best beers in the world (but probably you didn’t taste it when you were 12) and our cheeses can compete with every other one, just like our bread. I work in Holland and every day I bring my Belgian bread across the border to the office because the Dutch bread is like foamy no-crust plastic-bag rubbish and I just cannot get it thru my throat. Sometimes I work from morning till late at night without eating (because I forgot to bring bread) and not even then I can get the courage to eat that stuff the Dutch call ‘bread’. In fact, I cannot imagine one bit of food that is worth buying in Holland except for asparagus, strawberries or paprika. Even their mussels are not eatable. That is to say: they are eatable but not if prepared by the Dutch. Belgium imports a lot of mussels from Holland and we eat about 85% of their total production but in Holland… sorry but I pass categorically.

Nevertheless, honesty makes me admit that our sausages are not something you would travel to Belgium for. For that, I like to go to the Polish shop.

.. Sorry, I think this is a bit off topic. Got carried away.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 200
Member Since:
September 11, 2008
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
18
September 4, 2023 - 5:26 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

We in Bavaria are also quite good at beer :-).

I have long planned to visit Belgium with the camper. Do you know if there is still a good gun museum in Liege that exhibits Browning prototypes?

 

Greetings from Germany

 

Stefan

Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 9
Member Since:
August 28, 2023
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
19
September 6, 2023 - 12:32 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

steff said
 

We in Bavaria are also quite good at beer :-).

I have long planned to visit Belgium with the camper. Do you know if there is still a good gun museum in Liege that exhibits Browning prototypes?

Greetings from Germany

Stefan
  

Yes, mein Nachbar, I know, Bavarian softdrink beer is very good (in fact excellent) but I was talking about real beer with plenty of horsepower 😉

Please don’t mention the Doppelbock. It is strong but that says it all. If you want tasty strong, be welcome in Belgium.

No idea about Luttich but there is one museum in West-Flanders (about 130 Km from where I live) that you should absolutely have visited during your lifetime. It is owned by a British couple and Barry, the husband, is a walking encyclopedia on literary everything that has to do with WWI. Here’s their site: http://bbcfm.be

The museum itself is small in m2 but when Barry gives you a tour (only by appointment and somewhere around 35 euro per person), you won’t get out before dark (ok, I exaggerate a bit). When the tour is over, you will be so exhausted from all the stuff that you learned that you will be longing for a great cup of English tea by the wife, Debby, and enjoy the magnificent view von der Terrasse auf dem Hügel.

They also sell guns, books and all kinds of nice things because they cannot fit everything into the museum. About 3-4 Km from the museum, you can also visit the secret staff bunker that isn’t so secret anymore since the gouvernment reveled it somewhere in the ’90s. And in the wonderful little village you will find a small restaurant called Casino where you can have a nice meal for little money (and they have real good beers as well)

Think we drifted off topic but if you want to come to Belgium (only 7-8 hours drive), you can just give me a PM and I will see if I can be of any help.

By the way: a couple of years ago, I drove to Bavaria to buy my El Tigre.

It’s a small world after all, don’t you think?

Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4860
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
20
September 6, 2023 - 2:01 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Topic drift? I thought this was an excellent discussion of museums. I like museums. Just occurred to me maybe we should more bars with antique guns on the walls. Or maybe a museum where you can pull up a chair and enjoy your favorite beverage while you study a display and contemplate what it was like for the people who originally used those firearms. 

Carry on, gents! I probably won’t make it to your side of the pond any time soon but you’re blowing the dust and cobwebs off a few memories.

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 778
Currently Online: pdog72, deerhunter, Tony. R
Guest(s) 51
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
clarence: 6148
TXGunNut: 4860
Chuck: 4513
1873man: 4256
steve004: 4096
Big Larry: 2290
twobit: 2283
TR: 1690
mrcvs: 1656
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 17
Topics: 12492
Posts: 108468

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1726
Members: 8711
Moderators: 4
Admins: 3
Navigation