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Hello All. I have enjoyed reading this forum for a while but have not had a reason to post until now. I bought a Winchester 1894 rifle that has a lot of options. I thought you may like to hear about it, I can’t post pictures as I am not a WACA member yet.
Model 1894, 30 wcf, serial 185xxx, 26″ round barrel extra light, matted barrel, checkered pistol grip stock (H pattern), hard rubber grip cap, xxx wood (lower tang marked xxx), shotgun butt, hard rubber butt plate, plain trigger. A name was professionally inscribed on the left side of the receiver, very fancy, looks like engraving.
I ordered and received a factory letter for this rifle. Here is the information in the letter:
Serial number applied on June 30, 1903
Type: Rifle, Caliber: 30, Barrel Type: Round, Trigger: Plain, Extra Light, etc., Received in warehouse on September 28, 1903, Shipped from warehouse on September 29, 1903, Order number 19439
Wish they would have listed more than “etc.” in the options. I wonder how often this is seen in the records?
Thanks, Jim
I have a 73 that letters with a “etc”
Rifle, 22 caliber, 26″ octagon barrel, set trigger, casehardened, checkered stock, pistol grip, 2 extra barrels fitted fancy checkered forearm compete magazines (etc).
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
FYI
Your rifle with S.N. 185 XXX does not show up in the ARMAX Vol.5 as having a matted barrel.
As far as engraving goes, S.N’s 185435, 185438, 185973 and 185974 are the only ones that show engraving.
Paul
Thanks for the comments. Can I get a copy of the ledger showing my rifle? I saw a copy of the ARMAX 5 on ebay, I may order one.
Jim
Jim:
Any time that I get a letter from Cody I always ask for a copy of the ledger and they will send it. Since you have already gotten a letter, they may send you a copy of the ledger.
I didn’t mean to imply that your rifle is not right. I just don’t think they would not include matted barrel since that is not a very common thing. I have seen letters that include “engraved and inscribed and even the name or initials that were inscribed on the gun.” The ARMAX is only info on the 1894 so, if you are not mainly into the 1894, it probably is not worth having.
Paul
Would the ARMAX show any information that is not included in the Cody Factory letter? I thought the ARMAX information was compiled from the same places as the Cody Factory letters.
Cody Firearms Museum said this rifles information must have been recorded by the lazy guy at Winchester or on a Friday! Etc. covers a lot of options on this rifle.
Jim
Jim,
The ARMAX was compiled from the ledgers so if it was not in one it will not be in the other. I have found guns that look correct but do not letter. Most of the time it is just one feature that is missed. This is the first one I have seen where the used “etc” to cover multiple main features.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Thanks Bob. One of the things I hoped was in the factory letter is what sights the rifle came with. I don’t believe the sights on the rifle are original. The rear barrel sight is a Marbles semi buckhorn and the front sight is a Lyman Ivory Jack installed in the original ramp Winchester put on the extra light barrels. The rifle also had a Marbles automatic flexible joint tang sight installed.
Jim
I have a 1903 vintage 32 WS # 175601, with what appears to be, factory swivels. It also has the smokeless sight and the standard Sporting front sight. It is a round bbl. takedown, and the factory letter does not mention the swivels. The rifle is a good 98% and has the early “widows peak” hammer. The swivels measure out to be correct and the one on the cap does not appear to have been altered. I often wonder why the owner would put after the fact swivels on it and not use it? This rifle probably never saw a trip to deer country. Big Larry
Big Larry
A question for you. Based on the info I have kept, I am sure of the answers but, I will ask anyway. Is the caliber marking on the top of the barrel and does it have proof marks? Just getting back into keeping some info on the 1894’s after a year or so break. Can reply by email if you like. [email protected]
Paul
Hi Paul. No proofs and caliber is marked on top.
Now answer me a question. M1894 SRC # 306366 .30 cal. shipped in 1906 has one proof on the receiver and one on the forward end of the rear sight. Are these scarce?
I have never seen another marked like this. Thanks, Big Larry
Jim,
You have to understand when they bought a gun back then it was just like today. The first thing you did was put on your favorite sights on just like today, you put on a scope. The ledgers would mention sights maybe 10% of the time.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Thanks Bob. I do like the sights that are on it, easy for me to see the Ivory Jack front sight. I took off the Marbles tang sight for now.
I joined the WACA today. Going to try to upload some pictures.
Jim
Online
Jim,
The matting on the barrel does not look correct to me. It does not appear to be the same knurling pattern as the rifles I have seen that letter with a matted barrel.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Big Larry said
Hi Paul. No proofs and caliber is marked on top.
Now answer me a question. M1894 SRC # 306366 .30 cal. shipped in 1906 has one proof on the receiver and one on the forward end of the rear sight. Are these scarce?
I have never seen another marked like this. Thanks, Big Larry
Larry,
I have recorded a fair number of Model 1894 Carbines in my survey that have the proof mark on the barrel just forward of the rear sight. Interestingly enough several of them also have the August 14th patent date error as well. The serial number range for the those that I have surveyed with the forward placed proof mark is 306000 – 384000.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert,
Thank you for your comments on my rifle. I have been trying to compare my rifle to this rifle I found on the web:
http://rarewinchesters.com/gunroom/1894/M94-0022905/details.shtml
Thanks, Jim
Here are a couple more pictures of my rifle.
Here is a pic of an 1892 TD PG Checked rifle with matted barrel (I thought I had letter information but dont). The rifle is in the 96K range and has the proof mark on the barrel and top of the receiver which would lead me to believe factory rework–hence the added proof marks. Unfortunately the pics were taken off the internet so I dont have one showing the matting better. From what I can tell looking at the two, the matting looks the same. The barrel markings are done in the similar fashion.
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
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