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1894 Border Rifle
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January 18, 2022 - 9:59 pm
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As a collector, I’m fine with short rifles.  I see the desirability.  I think what continues to influence me is the fact that I was a hunter first.  I grew up in a family that (except for one uncle) viewed firearms for their practical vs. collector purposes.  It doesn’t matter how many shooter/hunters I have, I still  have a side of me that views new rifle prospects from a hunter perspective.   I think it is the voice of my Dad, grandfather, uncles, great uncles and others who loved hunting and would frown at a 26 inch octagon barreled rifle.  Over 40 years ago I acquired a M1886 .50 express with a 32 inch full octagon barrel and full magazine (with the two barrel hangers).  No one was impressed.

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January 18, 2022 - 11:09 pm
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Burt Humphrey said

steve004 said
  Some people hunt from pickups with binoculars and don’t actually get out of the truck until they spot something.  Very different from my hunting experiences.    

Steve – that’s how I got this jackalope in western South Dakota – drove around in the pickup until I spotted him. In SD you can’t shoot from a vehicle so I had to get out to take him. I believe P-dog said he was able to take one once also – somewhere in Wyoming.

sheep.JPGImage Enlarger  

Did you use a short rifle to get him?  How many shots?

That’s a great room!

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January 19, 2022 - 12:14 am
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steve004 said I think it is the voice of my Dad, grandfather, uncles, great uncles and others who loved hunting and would frown at a 26 inch octagon barreled rifle.  Over 40 years ago I acquired a M1886 .50 express with a 32 inch full octagon barrel and full magazine (with the two barrel hangers).  No one was impressed.  

But in view of the fact that 26″ was considered standard by the factory, I think it stands to reason that a LOT of other customers preferred that extra 6″ of brl length.  If 26-inchers were stagnating in dealer’s gun racks, & if the factory was besieged with orders for shorter brls, it’s not likely 26″ would have remained the standard. 

I promise you I’d be VERY impressed with your 32-incher!

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January 19, 2022 - 12:31 am
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clarence said

But in view of the fact that 26″ was considered standard by the factory, I think it stands to reason that a LOT of other customers preferred that extra 6″ of brl length.  If 26-inchers were stagnating in dealer’s gun racks, & if the factory was besieged with orders for shorter brls, it’s not likely 26″ would have remained the standard. 

I promise you I’d be VERY impressed with your 32-incher!  

However, the 26 inch M1894’s did drop from the scene and the 20 inch barrel carbine won out to become the standard.  At the time my hunting memories start, the ’94 carbine had established it’s dominance for a couple decades.  All of the 94’s used on the, “farm” were carbines.  As I’ve mentioned before, nearly all were .32 Specials but I do recall one .30-30.  

I never hunted with the 32 inch 1886.  I probably should have as I was strong enough to carry it back then Wink

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January 19, 2022 - 2:09 am
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steve004 said

Steve – that’s how I got this jackalope in western South Dakota – drove around in the pickup until I spotted him. In SD you can’t shoot from a vehicle so I had to get out to take him. I believe P-dog said he was able to take one once also – somewhere in Wyoming.
sheep.JPGImage Enlarger  

Did you use a short rifle to get him?  How many shots?

That’s a great room!  

The only Winchester lever I ever hunted with was a 94 eastern carbine (30-30) which my dad gave me for my 12th birthday. I hunted deer and antelope with it every year thru high school. I still have the old 30-30 and guess you could say it started the collecting madness I once suffered from. I admire the guys that hunt with and shoot them on a regular basis – that is what they were designed for.

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January 19, 2022 - 3:12 am
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Burt Humphrey said

steve004 said
  Some people hunt from pickups with binoculars and don’t actually get out of the truck until they spot something.  Very different from my hunting experiences.    

Steve – that’s how I got this jackalope in western South Dakota – drove around in the pickup until I spotted him. In SD you can’t shoot from a vehicle so I had to get out to take him. I believe P-dog said he was able to take one once also – somewhere in Wyoming.

sheep.JPGImage Enlarger  

Oh yes, the elusive Jackalope ……… when out tromping sagebrush for them, you always know you are getting close when the sasquatch you just passed points you in the right direction. Oddly enough, mine was a 2×2 as well. Hard to find them with brow tines.

                                                                               ~Gary~

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January 19, 2022 - 8:27 am
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pdog72 said

Steve – that’s how I got this jackalope in western South Dakota – drove around in the pickup until I spotted him. In SD you can’t shoot from a vehicle so I had to get out to take him. I believe P-dog said he was able to take one once also – somewhere in Wyoming.
sheep.JPGImage Enlarger  

Oh yes, the elusive Jackalope ……… when out tromping sagebrush for them, you always know you are getting close when the sasquatch you just passed points you in the right direction. Oddly enough, mine was a 2×2 as well. Hard to find them with brow tines.  

Gary – maybe sometime we can hook up on a jackalope hunt. Last fall I was in Wyoming shooting prairie dogs near Sheridan – had lunch in Buffalo but could not find anyone that could hook me up with a good jackalope hunt. I have a buddy that scored a jackalope at Al’s Oasis, close to Huron, SD – it was also a 2×2. I have made a couple of memorable Wyoming hunts, including taking a nice Bighorn out of Cody.

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January 20, 2022 - 1:42 am
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clarence said

Eric Ryan said
 There is no doubt that a solid short rifle can be shot more accurately the a carbine and serious USERS would have picked the rifle over carbine.   

Why would that be?  Sight radius is about the same, & the rear sight on a carbine provides easy to see & adjust calibrations, as opposed to counting the steps on the elevator of a standard sporting rear sight.

But I agree with you about “perfect” guns lacking history.   

Clarence-

It’s my understanding that the carbine’s barrel band upsets the harmonics. I’ve never been able to prove this but I have removed the fore end wood (and band) of a carbine when chasing accuracy Issues and have dabbled with fore end pressures in a bolt gun enough to believe there may be some credibility to the argument. My best shooting vintage Winchesters are rifles but quite honestly I don’t have a carbine with what I would call an excellent bore…but I did pick up one in Cody that shows promise. 

Big fan of character myself. My “border rifle” had so much “character” the new owner nearly had to make two trips to get it all out to his pickup. 😉 Only pic I could find is below, look between the Winder musket and the Marlin.

 

Mike

 

6DA3BDE9-4314-4684-8FB2-D80CADC6AFE1.jpegImage Enlarger

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January 20, 2022 - 2:53 am
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TXGunNut said

clarence said

Eric Ryan said
 There is no doubt that a solid short rifle can be shot more accurately the a carbine and serious USERS would have picked the rifle over carbine.   

Why would that be?  Sight radius is about the same, & the rear sight on a carbine provides easy to see & adjust calibrations, as opposed to counting the steps on the elevator of a standard sporting rear sight.

But I agree with you about “perfect” guns lacking history.   

Clarence-

It’s my understanding that the carbine’s barrel band upsets the harmonics. I’ve never been able to prove this but I have removed the fore end wood (and band) of a carbine when chasing accuracy Issues and have dabbled with fore end pressures in a bolt gun enough to believe there may be some credibility to the argument. My best shooting vintage Winchesters are rifles but quite honestly I don’t have a carbine with what I would call an excellent bore…but I did pick up one in Cody that shows promise. 

Big fan of character myself. My “border rifle” had so much “character” the new owner nearly had to make two trips to get it all out to his pickup. 😉 Only pic I could find is below, look between the Winder musket and the Marlin.

 

Mike

 

6DA3BDE9-4314-4684-8FB2-D80CADC6AFE1.jpegImage Enlarger  

I have read about barrel bands upsetting the harmonics and hence having an impact on accuracy.  

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January 20, 2022 - 5:15 am
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TXGunNut said

Clarence-

It’s my understanding that the carbine’s barrel band upsets the harmonics.
 

It has an effect on brl. vibration, of course, but considering that brl bands have been used on many target rifles subject to rigorous accuracy testing, early Model 52s & National Match ’03 Springfields among others, the nature of that “effect” isn’t clear-cut.  For ex., best accuracy with a sporter wt. brl. is often attained with slight fore-end pressure, so in that case “upsets” could be considered positive rather than negative. 

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