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In Henshaw`s book "The history of Winchester Firearms" there´s a mention about Browning brothers getting part of the payment for m.1886`s producing rights as complete rifles which were marked "Browning Bros. Ogden, Utah". No other reference book that I have has anything about the matter. Is this true story or some kind of misunderstanding? Haven´t seen any pictures of thus marked rifles either.
It is actually a true piece of history.
Winchester bought the Patents from John. M. Browning and paid him a small percent in cash, then they paid him off in full by shipping completed ready to sell firearms. Those firearms after being received in Ogden Utah were then stamped "BROWNING BROS. OGDEN U.T." on the top of the barrel between the Winchester address stamp and the front of the rear sight. After Utah became a state in 1896, the stamp was changed to "BROWNING BROS. OGDEN U."
I have three Winchesters in my collection with the Browning Brothers marking on them.
Bert H.
p.s. Send me a PM with your email address, and I will send you a few pictures of the markings on my rifles.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Thanks again, Bert! I wonder why Madis or Pirkle do not mention this subject at all..or have I been reading unaccurately? (Yes, I know there`s quite a many unaccuracies in those books…) I `ll send you a PM soon.
In defense of both George Madis and Art Pirkle, I believe that they both concentrated on how Winchester marked the various models versus what was done to them after the fact.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert,
I have seen some 1894s stamped with the Ogden markings. Some even on the left hand side of the receiver. Would these be part of the same deal or other dealings?
Matt
January 26, 2011
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Leverfan said
Thanks again, Bert! I wonder why Madis or Pirkle do not mention this subject at all..or have I been reading unaccurately? (Yes, I know there`s quite a many unaccuracies in those books…) I `ll send you a PM soon.
Madis does talk about this and shows several examples of these stampings on page 594 of The Winchester Book. Not sure which edition I have, but it’s fairly new. Its in the Extras and Special order features. Bert was the first one that enlightened me on this when I bought an 1886 33 wcf that had this marking on it.
I have two rifles with Browning stamps:
Model 1885 s/n 4058 (1886 dom) marked Browning Bros. Ogden U.T.
Model 1886 s/n 150418 (1911 dom) marked Browning Bros. Ogden U.
My two examples seem to prove that this practice went on for most of the Browning relationship with Winchester. Is this a safe assumption?
~Gary~
I do not know exactly how long it took Winchester to pay off Browning for his many patents, but it all started in late 1885 with the introduction of the Winchester Single Shot (Model 1885).
There are at least several thousand Winchesters out there with the Browning stamp on them (I know one collector that has amassed a collection exceeding (400) Browning marked guns). I saw several at the recent Cody WACA show, and I usually find a few at each of the Big Reno gun shows.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Matt74 said
Bert,I have seen some 1894s stamped with the Ogden markings. Some even on the left hand side of the receiver. Would these be part of the same deal or other dealings?
Matt
Matt,
I have never seen one that was marked anywhere except on the barrel. I have seen a lot of early production Model 1894s with the marking on the barrel though.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Leverfan said
No other reference book that I have has anything about the matter. Is this true story or some kind of misunderstanding? Haven´t seen any pictures of thus marked rifles either.
Somewhere I remember reading in more detail that Winchester paid Browning for gun designs and patents for gun that where never produced, except for a few experimental guns. Some of these experimental guns where in the Winchester gun museum and then later housed at Cody. I believe not to long ago Cody even sold a few of these at auction. I will see if I can find the specific book I’m referring to.
You can see some of these guns mentioned in "Inventory of the Winchester Firearms Reference Collection" published by Lynham Sayce Company. The book has several notable authors, one of which is Edwin Pugsley.
I believe this book is also mentioned in the latest edition of the Collector, and that the association has some for sale at $50. Which is a fair price. I paid $65 for my copy a few years back. The book is a very interesting read.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
Actually, there is information about those stampings in The Winchester Book, on page 594 – I just haven´t noticed it earlier…thanks to all for responses, and Bert, thanks for the pics.
Matt74 said
Bert,I have seen some 1894s stamped with the Ogden markings. Some even on the left hand side of the receiver. Would these be part of the same deal or other dealings?
Matt
Matt,
I have never seen one that was marked anywhere except on the barrel. I have seen a lot of early production Model 1894s with the marking on the barrel though.
Bert
You’re right Bert, my bad memory. I went back and looked and the gun was indeed stamped on the left side of the receiver, but was stamped "FROM W.F. SHEARD / TACOMA, WASH." I suppose guns stamped as such were guns sold by Sheard? I think I have seen two 94s stamped that way.
Matt
Matt,
I have seen a few dozen of the "W.F. Sheard, Tacoma Washington" marked Model 1894s, but keep in mind that I live less than 40-miles from Tacoma.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Old topic but I ran across this Model 1894 with the Browning Bros mark and Salt Lake, UT… Must have been later than Ogden.
Is the part true about not being blued?
November 7, 2015
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I enjoyed John M Browning, American Gunmaker by John Browning and Curt Gentry. The authors wrote extensively about Browning’s early life and business ventures with his brothers. Browning was a fascinating mixture of gunsmith, inventor, manufacturer and entrepreneur. To answer OP’s question in a nutshell the Browning brothers operated a sporting goods store after they quit manufacturing rifles. At least some of the guns they sold were stamped with the store’s name.
Not only did they mark the guns they sold, but they also marked the guns that came in for repair. I have seen several Colt Single Actions with the Browning Bros., marking and I know of at least one model 1866 Winchester octagon barreled rifle with the Browning markings on the barrel.
January 26, 2011
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nantahala11 said
Old topic but I ran across this Model 1894 with the Browning Bros mark and Salt Lake, UT… Must have been later than Ogden.Is the part true about not being blued?
I believe the Salt Lake version of the stamp is the most scarce. Too bad this gun is pretty rough and has zero finish left.
I’ve had three Browning marked guns in the past, an 1885, 1886, and one 1894. The first two that I mentioned in post #6 above have since been sold off, but I still have a pretty decent 1894 in 38-55 with the Ogden U stamp as shown in the picture attached. I really think its a desirable addition to any Winchester.
~Gary~
I just picked up a 1892 in 25-20 that’s marked BROWNING BROS CO. OGDEN.U. Its serial number 432334. Its got a 24″ octagon barrel and full length magazine.
Unfortunatly it’s been reblued and refinished and has a big bolt through the pistol grip so not a collector but man it is sweet to carry and shoot. I have a Lyman 21 “D” marked sight I’ll have installed and just keep using it for what it was built for.
I’d appreciate any info or comments about this rifle.
Maverick said
Leverfan said
No other reference book that I have has anything about the matter. Is this true story or some kind of misunderstanding? Haven´t seen any pictures of thus marked rifles either.Somewhere I remember reading in more detail that Winchester paid Browning for gun designs and patents for gun that where never produced, except for a few experimental guns. Some of these experimental guns where in the Winchester gun museum and then later housed at Cody. I believe not to long ago Cody even sold a few of these at auction. I will see if I can find the specific book I’m referring to.
You can see some of these guns mentioned in “Inventory of the Winchester Firearms Reference Collection” published by Lynham Sayce Company. The book has several notable authors, one of which is Edwin Pugsley.
I believe this book is also mentioned in the latest edition of the Collector, and that the association has some for sale at $50. Which is a fair price. I paid $65 for my copy a few years back. The book is a very interesting read.
Sincerely,
Maverick
Or, you could pick up one on Ebay for $545:
steve004 said
Or, you could pick up one on Ebay for $545:
Yeah. That’s a NUTS price. Somebody money laundering or something.
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
[email protected] said
I just picked up a 1892 in 25-20 that’s marked BROWNING BROS CO. OGDEN.U. Its serial number 432334. Its got a 24″ octagon barrel and full length magazine.Unfortunatly it’s been reblued and refinished and has a big bolt through the pistol grip so not a collector but man it is sweet to carry and shoot. I have a Lyman 21 “D” marked sight I’ll have installed and just keep using it for what it was built for.
I’d appreciate any info or comments about this rifle.
Pictures would help a lot. Winchesters than have the Browning Bros mark mean they were sold by the Browning Bros.
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