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Model 1892 Research Survey
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February 22, 2015 - 10:51 pm
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Hello to all,Especially those with a Winchester Model 1892/92 rifle. I have been working on a survey of this line of rifle for more than 4 years now and have cataloged almost 7500 rifles to date. Much of this effort is the result of scouring on line auctions and dealers sites but has also included a couple of museum collections and thankfully the input from collectors and folks who own one or more. Some have wanted to know “what it is worth?” and other what is it?

There are wonderful reference books covering the 1873 by Gordon, the 1894/94 by Renneberg and the slide action rim fire rifle by Schwing. But there is little comprehensive and accurate information to assist those collecting the Model 1892. So, like those before me, and those presently working on other Winchester rifles I am trying to collect as much information on as many of these rifles as possible. Your gun does not need to be fancy, unique, high condition, or anything out of the ordinary. It just needs to be a Model 1892/92 and have a legible serial number on it in order to be part of this effort.

I would like you to read through the following information and you can either tell me how your rifle matches the individual photos or send me a series of photos via email that show the overall configuration and ones that show the barrel address, caliber stamp, upper tang stamp and the serial number. Either way is fine with me. I would prefer that you individually email me instead of through this forum thread. I believe it will be simpler to keep each person and rifle better organized instead of having to sift back through the questions and answers. My email address is: [email protected]

Grab your rifle(s) and let’s get started.
1. Full serial number. Partials do not allow me to be certain that I have not already logged the gun into the work. If the gun is in the 100,000 range do the 1’s look like an “L” or inverted “T”?

2. What is the configuration of the gun? Sporting rifle, saddle ring carbine, carbine, or musket?

3. What is the shape and length of the barrel? On sporting rifles is it round, octagon, or half round?

4. What is the style of the butt stock? Crescent rifle, carbine, or shotgun? With or without a pistol grip? Any checkering done to the wood?

5. On sporting rifles is the frame a solid or take down style?
Solid Frame:

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Takedown Frame:

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6. What is the caliber of the gun and is it marked on the top or left side of the barrel? If you have a saddle ring carbine in 25-20 is the caliber stamp done in two lines?

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7. Compare your rifle’s barrel address to the series of photos and which one does it match exactly? Is the stamp on the top, left side, or right side of the barrel?
Type 1

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Type 1B

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Type 1C

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Type 1D

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Type 2

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Type 3

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Type 4

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8. Compare your rifle’s upper tang stamp to the following series of photos and which one does it match exactly?
If you have a Type 1, if there is no period at the end of 1884 on bottom line it is a 1B
If there is no period at the end of either the upper or lower line it is a Type 1A

Type 1

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Type 2

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Type 2A If you have a Type 2A is the “MOD 1892” stamped perpendicular to the length of the tang just under the hammer? Please note which you have.

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Type 2A Alt

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Type 3

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Type 4  Look especially close at the bottom line for the inclusion of “& FGN” for the type 4 style.

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Type 5

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Type 6

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Type 7

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9. On early guns does the hammer have the `widow’s peak’ indentation on the upper edge?

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10. What front and rear sight are on the rifle? Photos might be easier here.  Please send them to my email.

11. On saddle ring carbines in the +940,000 range please check closely as to the position of the rear sight dovetail relative to
the Model designation on the left side of the barrel. Which photo below does it match?
Position A

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Position B

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12. How are the Winchester Proof stamps located on the rifle?
In Line Proofs

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Forward Proofs Only found on some saddle ring carbines

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Top Proofs

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Bottom Proofs.  Rarely found on Carbines

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13. Finally, is there anything else specific to your rifle that is not already covered such as engraving, alloy barrel such as Nickel steel, Stinger or Daisy stamps?
Thank so much to all who decide to participate and help in the project. Efforts like this are only successful with the help of others.
My email address is: [email protected]
Michael

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March 5, 2015 - 8:26 pm
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Michael,

How rare is a model 1892 takedown with rifle butt that has the trap door and cleaning rod in the butt? Do you have any in your survey? There’s one in the upcoming Julia auction, SN 37362.

Thanks,

Al

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March 6, 2015 - 12:33 am
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As for takedowns I have not come across one yet aside from this one (having cleaning rod storage/buttplate).  However, I have seen them before on 1894 rifles.  Not many around. The one thing about 1892 takedown rifles is that any time you have a special order feature, or two, beyond the takedown frame, they tend to be in very limited numbers (all configurations and calibers considered). 

Chris

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March 13, 2015 - 2:22 am
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Hello Al,

Sorry for the long delay.   I was fishing in Belize and out of touch with Winchester world.  The rifle is in its original configuration.  There were a fair number of 1892’s made with “rod in butt” stocks but any time you start matching that feature with other “special order” items the rarity goes up substantially. 

Michael

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March 26, 2015 - 2:39 pm
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twobit said

Hello Al,

Sorry for the long delay.   I was fishing in Belize and out of touch with Winchester world.  The rifle is in its original configuration.  There were a fair number of 1892’s made with “rod in butt” stocks but any time you start matching that feature with other “special order” items the rarity goes up substantially. 

Michael

Michael,

Hope you had fun fishing. Do you have any other 1892 takedowns with “rod in butt” in your survey?

Thanks,

Al

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March 30, 2015 - 7:43 pm
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tionesta1 said

twobit said

Hello Al,
Sorry for the long delay.   I was fishing in Belize and out of touch with Winchester world.  The rifle is in its original configuration.  There were a fair number of 1892’s made with “rod in butt” stocks but any time you start matching that feature with other “special order” items the rarity goes up substantially. 
Michael

Michael,

Hope you had fun fishing. Do you have any other 1892 takedowns with “rod in butt” in your survey?

Thanks,

Al

Al,

I have one other Model 1892 takedown in my data which had the rod in butt option.

Michael

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March 31, 2015 - 10:01 pm
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1892takedown said

As for takedowns I have not come across one yet aside from this one (having cleaning rod storage/buttplate).  However, I have seen them before on 1894 rifles.  Not many around. The one thing about 1892 takedown rifles is that any time you have a special order feature, or two, beyond the takedown frame, they tend to be in very limited numbers (all configurations and calibers considered). 

Chris

Thanks Chris.
 

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March 31, 2015 - 10:02 pm
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twobit said

tionesta1 said

twobit said

Hello Al,
Sorry for the long delay.   I was fishing in Belize and out of touch with Winchester world.  The rifle is in its original configuration.  There were a fair number of 1892’s made with “rod in butt” stocks but any time you start matching that feature with other “special order” items the rarity goes up substantially. 
Michael

Michael,

Hope you had fun fishing. Do you have any other 1892 takedowns with “rod in butt” in your survey?

Thanks,

Al

Al,

I have one other Model 1892 takedown in my data which had the rod in butt option.

Michael

Thanks Michael

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October 31, 2015 - 4:50 am
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Michael. I have Five model 92s to add

Model 92 rifle, standard- round barrel, .25-20, crescent butt plate #219045– 1904

Model 92 saddle ring Carbine standard  .44-40 #362563 –1906

Model 92 rifle round barrel .38-40, Half magazine, shotgun rear stock with hard  rubber butt plate  Lyman tang site attached #451753 –1908

Model 92 saddle ring Carbine standard  .44-40 #931125 –1924

Model 92 saddle ring Carbine standard  .32-20  #961806 –1926

 

I would love to get more info on #451753 for CFM had  very little

Regards  Dan

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October 31, 2015 - 11:53 am
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sgtsemo said

Michael. I have Five model 92s to add

Model 92 rifle, standard- round barrel, .25-20, crescent butt plate #219045– 1904

Model 92 saddle ring Carbine standard  .44-40 #362563 –1906

Model 92 rifle round barrel .38-40, Half magazine, shotgun rear stock with hard  rubber butt plate  Lyman tang site attached #451753 –1908

Model 92 saddle ring Carbine standard  .44-40 #931125 –1924

Model 92 saddle ring Carbine standard  .32-20  #961806 –1926

 

I would love to get more info on #451753 for CFM had  very little

Regards  Dan

Hello Dan,

I love guys like you!!!  Thanks so much.  All five rifles are new ones for my survey!  If you get some time could I please ask you to take photos of all the stamped writing  and the hammer checkering on each rifle and email them to me?  I have photo files on just over 4000 individual rifles and the information from yours will help fill in the holes in the data sheet for each of your rifles.  

http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=606355

Thanks again and let me know if you have specific questions on any of them.

Michael

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October 31, 2015 - 4:02 pm
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Hi Michael. Looking over some of my “values” books, I see one of the most highly valued M1892’s is the Takedown model in 44 WCF. Even in plain grade, a nice one exceeds $8,000, so they must be a little on the scarce side. It would seem, one with a butt trap would be exceedingly rare and valuable. I do have a nice 1911 vintage 44 takedown, # 613252, and paid more for it than any other rifle in my collection. You see lots of small caliber takedowns, but seldom is a 44 encountered.    Thanks, Big Larry

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November 1, 2015 - 2:48 pm
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Big Larry,

I have an antique model 1892 takedown, full octagon, full mag, sn 37362,

letters as:

serial number applied on November 26, 1894

Type: Rifle

Caliber:44

Barrel Type: Octagon

Trigger: Plain

Sights Lyman combination front and rear

Takedown

Rod in Butt

Received in the warehouse May 06, 1895

Shipped from warehouse on June 04, 1895, Order number 13028

This rifle is in better than 90% condition, and my most valuable Winchester. (At least it cost me the most out of any in my collection).

Al

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November 1, 2015 - 6:16 pm
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Nice treasure AL. Do you shoot it?      Thanks, Big Larry

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November 1, 2015 - 9:43 pm
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Big Larry,

Thanks. I don’t shoot it.

Al

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November 1, 2015 - 10:44 pm
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tionesta1 said

Big Larry,

Thanks. I don’t shoot it.

Al

Me neither. I have 4 nice ones and have only shot the 1925 carbine a few times. I do reload the 44 WCF though.  Thanks, Big Larry

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November 2, 2015 - 12:07 am
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I’ll post some pictures as soon as I take some.

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November 2, 2015 - 3:20 am
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I have a 1892 takedown half octagon double set triggers crescent butt chambered in 25-20 wcf s/n#620814 any info on this would be great I got bit with the winchester bug a little over a year ago and can’t stop buying

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November 2, 2015 - 1:04 pm
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eddy kondraski_1 said

I have a 1892 takedown half octagon double set triggers crescent butt chambered in 25-20 wcf s/n#620814 any info on this would be great I got bit with the winchester bug a little over a year ago and can’t stop buying

Hello Eddy,

Your rifle was manufactured during 1911.  The half round barrel and double set triggers makes the configuration rather unique.  Is the magazine full length or a shorter length?  Could you please send me a series of photo of this rifle and any other 1892’s to my email address?  [email protected]  Please include details of the ares of stamped writing on the rifle.

Michael

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November 3, 2015 - 8:14 pm
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  Hi Michael  Do You have any idea how many Mod. 92 15″ rifles were made. I just purchased ser# 102645. It is in pretty good shape, and all there and all correct, although a brown gun and I think I got it pretty reasonable. It letters as rifle, .38 cal, round bbl. 15″ plain trigger, numbered Dec. 7, 1898 shipped Jan. 9 1899. I just bought it for resale or trade on My favorite , 1894s. Any help would be appreciated.     Henry

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November 4, 2015 - 5:39 pm
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Eddy,

If you could, let me know what type of buttstock (crescent, shotgun) and the magazine tube length. 

In terms of the 1/2 octagon barrel it is seldom seen however most examples are in 25-20.  Out of 600+ takedown rifles I have in my TD survey there are 32 with 1/2 Oct barrels (not counting the deluxe rifles).  Of those 15 are 25 WCF, 7 are 32WCF, 5 in 38 WCF, and 5 in 44 WCF.  Of those there are 11 with full magazines, the remainder have 1/2 mags.  Even rarer are 1/2 octagon barrels with full magazines (3).  What brings your rifle to the forefront is the fact that it has a set trigger. Set triggers are seldom found on takedown rifles.  In my survey there are only 6 standard TD rifles with set triggers (one of which is 1/2 oct with 1/2 mag in 25-20), and 5 fancy/semi-deluxe/deluxe rifles with set triggers.   I have found that the inclusion of set triggers, sling eyes, or any other special order feature or a particular configuration having one caliber or another can bring a rifle out of the common category and into the rarer category. 

I appreciate any information you or anyone else could provide regarding your 92 takedown rifles.  And keep the information coming for Michael as well. 

Thanks,

Chris

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