Model 70 in Royal Canadian Mounted Police service?|Winchester Research Surveys|Forum|Winchester Collector

Steff,

Just Google ‘Winchester Model 70 RCMP’ and you’ll find info that may be helpful.

Hi Steffan-

Does your documentation have to prove use by the RCMP?  Your post said “only rifles that were used by an army or police unit before 1966″.  Would that include the US military or must it be a Canadian army or police unit?  Unfortunately, I know nothing about RCMP Model 70s beyond what can be found by Google search.

But if you need source documents and US military use is helpful, here are two original documents related to the purchase of (373) Model 70 Standard rifles by the US Marine Corps in 1942.  First is a clip from Winchester’s actual “Quotations and Orders” ledger from 1942.  The ones overmarked in red pencil were purchased.  For reference, G7004C is a Model 70 30 GOV’T’06 Standard rifle with 24″ barrel and Winchester 22G Sporting rear sight, while G7014C is the same rifle with Lyman 48WJS receiver sight.

The next document is a follow-up letter from Edwin Pugsley, Assistant Secretary of Winchester Repeating Arms Company to the USMC Quartermaster Corp confirming that the (373) rifles were shipped and soliciting further orders (that never materialized).

In the 1950s, many of these rifles were US Arsenal converted to heavy barrel “sniper” rifles that saw considerable use in combat during the Viet Nam war. One of those conversions is in a glass case in the USMC Museum in Quantic VA, and I think you can find a photo of it on-line.

Finally, quite a few Model 70 30-06 Target rifles were purchased and used by US military marksmanship teams in the 1950s.  While the Model 70 was never formally adopted as a combat weapon, there’s plenty of documentation that they were “used by an army…unit”.  You can see several M70 Target rifles in the front row of this team photo of the UMSC Rifle and Pistol Team taken at Camp Perry in 1955.

I don’t know if any of this helps.  Must you document the EXACT configuration of rifle you will be using?  If so, what is it?  What kind of “written proof” is needed?  Somebody here can probably help…

Best,

Lou

Steffen Jobst said
The exact wording is:
“Repeating rifles with open sights (rear sight and front sight) and a magazine capacity of at least 5 cartridges that were introduced as standard armament in an army unit or police unit by December 31, 1965 are permitted.”  

Hi Steffen-

I see…

It is true that the US military never formally adopted the M70 as a front line (combat) weapon.  Which is doubly ironic, in that: 1) In the pre-WWII period the USMC rejected (then Lt-Col) Owen Van Orden’s recommendation that they adopt the M70 as a sniper rifle; and, 2) Many of Carlos Hathcock’s (as well as other US sniper’s) documented sniper kills in Viet Nam were accomplished using M70s that were part of that 1942 purchase, were “converted” to heavy barrel rifles by USMC armorers, and were issued by USMC to field units for combat use prior to the adoption of the Remington M700 based sniper rifles…

Given that the matches in which you are competing accept “standard armament in an army or police unit”, the whole thing seems to boil down to your governing body’s interpretation of the word “standard”.  I suppose that, if I were to show up at one of your matches with the M70 “Van Orden Sniper” that won the 1952 Wimbledon Cup (1000 yard) match in the hands of a US serviceman, for whom the rifle was purchased/issued by his military unit (marksmanship team), I would be turned away b/c the rifle was not “standard” armament?  That’s almost funny…

There’s plenty of documentation of the US military (several branches) purchasing M70 Target rifles for official marksmanship team use from BOTH (then Brig-Gen Ret) Owen Van Orden’s business “Evaluators Ltd” located in Triangle VA just outside of Quantico AND directly from Winchester.  Some “US Property” marked 30-06 Target rifles with CMP (Civilian Marksmanship Program) paperwork have been sold recently and documents can be located (auction listings).  But if the word “standard” in the regulations strictly means “combat weapon” then this doesn’t help…

Hopefully some of our Canadian members have something that can help…

Good Luck!!!

Lou

I sent you a PM.

Sincerely,

Maverick