Model 64 in 219 zipper|Winchester Research Surveys|Forum|Winchester Collector

Winchester nut said
     Yes sir that is what I read that standard barrel length is 26 inches for the zipper.  This barrel is 24 inches and tomorrow I’ll inspect it much more closely.  The barrel was crowned but I just did not know anything really about 64’s when I looked at it.  I can say this upon a quick scan I did of the gun I don’t believe the barrel is cut but I will check it out tomorrow thoroughly.  In Mr. Renneberg’s book he did say they were manufacturing 94’s, 55’s and 64’s all at the same time.  Winchester did not make 55’s or 94’s in the zipper.  Is it possible that this gun got a 24 inch barrel in .219 zipper?       

I suspect the you misinterpreted what Bob (Robert) Renneberg wrote in his book.  The Model 94 and Model 55 were manufactured simultaneously (June 1924 – late 1932), and for approximately 40% of the production, they were in the same serial number sequence.  The Model 55 was discontinued in late 1932, and the Model 64 replaced it in early 1933… they were never simultaneously manufactured. 

The Model 55 has manufactured with a 24-inch barrel (no other lengths offered), but as you mentioned, it was never made in 219 Zipper, as that cartridge was not introduced until late 1936. 

For many years now, Bob and I have been exchanging and sharing information about the Models 94, 55, and 64.  Some of the information he published in his 2nd edition book came directly from the information I supplied to him from the research survey I have had in progress since late 2005.  Based on the information I have acquired & documented in the survey, there are No documented Model 64 219 Zippers made with a 24-inch or a 28-inch barrel.  There are a small number that were made in the late pre-WW II years that have a factory 22-inch barrel.  So, in answer to your question, I believe that is it highly unlikely that Winchester manufactured a Model 64 219 Zipper with a 24-inch barrel.  If you can get a series of clear pictures of the barrel and the markings on it, I may be able to provide more information.

Bert

Maverick said

Winchester nut said
Winchester did not make 55’s or 94’s in the zipper. 

You fellows will have to forgive my ignorance here, but I must ask exactly why you believe the Models 94 & 55 were never chambered in the .219 Zipper cartridge?

Sincerely,

Maverick  

For the Model 55, it is quite simple… it was manufactured from June 1924 through December 1932, and then discontinued.  Winchester did not introduced the 219 Zipper cartridge until late 1936.  

In regards to the Model 94, by the time the 219 Zipper was introduced in the Model 64 Rifle, Winchester had discontinued the Model 94 Sporting Rifle, and was only producing 20-inch barreled Model 94 Carbines.  Further, there have been no known original Model 94s ever found in that caliber. 

Bert

Burt Humphrey said
Bert – how rare is the 64 zipper deer rifle (deluxe)?

  

Burt,

Of the (252) Model 64 219 Zippers that I have verified this far, (58) of them are Deer Rifles.

Bert

Deluxe 76 said
Bert,

   i don’t know if you have these zippers in your survey or not .

serial number 1,133,230.  1,375,324 1,379,075.  One is new in kraft box and one is new in picture box.

Thanks Gerald

      

Gerald,

Two of them are new numbers (the latter two).  The first serial number we need to talk about separately.

Which variation Model 64 are S/Ns 1375324 and 1379075?  Do both have a Bolt peep sight?  Are the receivers drilled & tapped for a Lyman receiver peep sight?

Bert

steve004 said
Alright, this all makes me really want a ’94 carbine in .219 zipper.  It I could go back to the late 1930’s, I’d ask Winchester to make me one.  I suspect by then, the Winchester Company that historically would do about anything to accommodate the special order desires of a customer, had largely faded away.  Hence, they would probably turn me down.  However if a premium were offered, maybe they would have done it?    

Steve,

Winchester would have sent you Model 64 “Carbine” in 219 Zipper.  Though they never advertised or cataloged them, Winchester did manufacture an unknown number of Model 64 219 Zippers with a factory 22-inch barrel.  Over the years, I have verified (7) of them. Thus far, they were all pre-WW II production, and are unique in that Winchester omitted the rear sight barrel dovetail, instead choosing to only provide them with the Bolt-peep sight.  One of our regulars here on the forum has one of them (Roger), and maybe we can persuade him to post some good pictures of it.  Many years ago, he allowed me the opportunity to very closely examine the gun.  At a later show (in Reno), a second one was being offered for sale, and we put the two rifles side by side, and they were identical (very close serial numbers 1239621 and 1241718).  During my examination, I measured the barrel diameter at the muzzle on the 22-inch barrel, and compared it to the barrel diameter on a standard 26-inch barrel (both at the muzzle, and at the 22-inch mark).  The Factory “carbine barrel was dimensionally smaller at the muzzle than the 26-inch barrel was at the 22-inch mark, but somewhat larger at the muzzle than 26-inch barrel muzzle diameter.  Roger and I inspected the barrel date and other markings on the bottom of the barrel, all of which were highly consistent with Winchester’s normal practices.  It was at that time that I became 100% convinced that the 22-inch 219 Zippers were factory original.

Roger… I know that your ears are itching… post some pictures please (or send them to me).

Bert