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Hello All,
Rob Kassab and I have started surveying the complete serial number range of the Model 1895.
We begin this task after several conversations about our mutual appreciation for this model, The Winchester Model 1895 book Rob is working on and the desire to record accurate information on particular features of Model 1895 production for collectors. We are interested in including some current “rarity tables”; configurations, chambers, special order features etc. and other information for the book, especially since there is significant chunk of production that is not covered by complete factory records. The information we are asking for in our survey is as follows:
• Serial number
• Type: Standard rifle, TD, deluxe (fancy), carbine, musket type etc.
• Chamber: .30 US, .30-06, .405 WCF, etc.
• Barrel type and length: especially noting non-standard features: octagon, ½ octagon, length, etc.
• Sights: standard sights, Lyman receiver, missing Lyman receiver, no rear seat, or any factory special order
• Buttplate type: rifle, shotgun steel or shotgun rubber, carbine etc.
• Special order stocks, checkering and carving
• Any special markings and engraving
• Historical provenance
• Other information or noteworthy special features and any information from a factory letter, serial number application date or records you have available
Records at the Cody firearms only cover the first 59,999 serial numbers, with polishing room/serial number application dates continuing for Nos. 60,000-425881. A report on the first 59,999 Model 1895 records by William L. Porter was published in the Fall 1990 issue of The Winchester Collector and included some of the information we are surveying. Rob will also have access to some additional research on those 59,999 serials. We would still like to find detailed information on those first 59,999 Model 1895s leaving the remainder of production out there to be surveyed and a significant number of Model 1895s that were not Russian or other contract arms.
Please send any information that you are willing to share for the Model 1895 survey to me, Brad Dunbar, at [email protected].
Please also take a look at the attached profile of Rob’s upcoming book on the Model 1895.
Thank you,
Brad Dunbar
Rob Kassab
Winchester Model 1895 Standard 30 US Sporting Rifle, Manufactured 1899
Brad,
Let me know if I can assist you and Rob in setting up the survey document. I have a vast amount of experience in creating Excel spreadsheets that automatically recalculate live totals and extrapolated totals as each new entry is made in the survey document.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Hey Bert, email sent with current Excel sheet for you. The live and extrapolated totals information sounds interesting.
I had a chance to see some of the chapters and materials for The Model 1895 this summer and that already got wheels turning in my head again about this great Winchester model. It will be a beautiful book.
Brad
Brad,
Give me a call (cell number) when you get time to discuss the nuts & bolts of the survey document.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert has me all straightened out now and I have a more streamlined spreadsheet, thanks!
One of the things I have encountered when talking to some other collectors about the Model 1895 down here is that some of them regard the 303 British chambered arms to be the most rare or scarce. I think on this forum we had discussed caliber rarity in the past, maybe based off of the report by William L. Porter mentioned in the original post. It would be interesting to find out if there were a number of 303 British 1895s that ended up in Canada.
Brad
Hi Brad
303 British is the most common Cal in Canada that I see , by about equal to all other cals combined in the Mod 1895’s . Tho to be honest I’m not much of a help on this Model as I did not take an interest in them till about 15 years ago when a friend bought a 303. I only have the one , 30 US flatside which I will send info when home and will try to get Pics (altho still struggling with Posting Pics) Maybe the 303’s were all intended for Canada as it was a common Cal up here , being our Military Cal from Boer War thru WW 11 Prices are going up .They were at cheap here till recently .
Phil
Brad & Rob,
If you have not done this yet is to back into the “Past Auctions” of all the major auction houses and mine the data that is located there. I would think you could easily kick start the effort with data on a couple hundred rifles as a result. I did this effort when I began my work on the Model 1892 and 61 surveys I am working on. Additionally, I keep track of where I located each rifle in my spreadsheet as a column of “Location”. I will list the auction house and Lot number of each rifle so it is easy to go back and check on something when you will eventually need to. I further keep photo files of all the 1892’s that I can and currently have images of over 4000 individual rifles. If you are a year or more into your work and then decide you want to include something additional or refine a certain point it is very easy to go back through the images for that data instead of not having that possibility. It also helps nail down rifles which have been altered after the first time you enter it. I have 1892’s that have been resold multiple times over a course of 4 years.
Good luck and ask me any questions you might have
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
Thanks twobit. Rob suggested I make note of what auction house I recorded the data from, and it was a good suggestion because I ended up looking back on a number of them after I revised my spreadsheet and noticed a few discrepancies. It was interesting to find a few guns so far that have been up for sale a few times also in different places. I have just started into the back catalogs of some of these auctions and there are a ton of 1895s there. I have done basically the same thing in surveying sights, however the conditions that have to be met for me to include guns in that survey are very high and that survey is very slow going. I’ve already found several hundred 1895s in the last couple days in the way you’ve described, and there are a lot more of them yet for me to look through.
Thanks,
Brad
It’s great that you are willing to take on this survey. I have long thought about starting a survey for ’95’s as well, but didn’t think I could devote the time to do it right. I had started keeping track of flatsides and have info jotted down on about 50 of them. I’ll send that info to you. You probably have most of them since they are mostly from auction sites. I’ll also be putting together info on my humble collection of ’95’s, part of which are pictured below. Thanks again for taking this on. Mark
Mark Douglas said
It’s great that you are willing to take on this survey. I have long thought about starting a survey for ’95’s as well, but didn’t think I could devote the time to do it right. I had started keeping track of flatsides and have info jotted down on about 50 of them. I’ll send that info to you. You probably have most of them since they are mostly from auction sites. I’ll also be putting together info on my humble collection of ’95’s, part of which are pictured below. Thanks again for taking this on. Mark
Mark,
That is not a “humble” collection… anyone who owns that many of any specific model is a dedicated “diehard” collector, and may be in need of an intervention program
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Mark,
That is not a “humble” collection… anyone who owns that many of any specific model is a dedicated “diehard” collector, and may be in need of an intervention program
Bert
Bert,
I’ll save you a seat at the intervention, ’cause I’m pretty sure it would take a whole lot more than one horse blanket to lay out your 1885 collection.
Mark
Mark Douglas said
Mark,
That is not a “humble” collection… anyone who owns that many of any specific model is a dedicated “diehard” collector, and may be in need of an intervention program
Bert
Bert,
I’ll save you a seat at the intervention, ’cause I’m pretty sure it would take a whole lot more than one horse blanket to lay out your 1885 collection.
Mark
Mark,
Thanks for pointing that out… and you are probably correct. Save me that seat.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Brad info on 1895 flatside #4235
s/n applied 8-11-1897
date in 8-28-1897
standard 28′ RBRCB 30 US
shipped 8-28-1897
order # 14769
Phil
Thank you Phil!
The survey has reached 501 entries as of this morning after starting on it last Thursday.
Hoping some more Canadian 1895s in elusive 303 British show up!
Thanks,
Brad
Here are a few ’95s for the survey:
Serial no. 3634, Cal. .38-72, Flatside, 26″ tapered oct. bbl.
Serial no. 2440, Cal. .30 US, Flatside, 28″ round bbl.
Serial no. 64952, Cal. .405 WCF, 24″ round bbl. crescent butt
Serial no. 81854, Cal. .35 WCF, Takedown, 24″ round bbl., shotgun butt
Serial no. 108452, Cal. .405 WCF, 24″ round bbl., checkered steel shotgun butt, Lyman sporting front sight, Lyman 21 receiver sight, 4-leaf Express rear sight, left side of receiver marked “Lyon & Lyon/Calcutta”, British proof marks
Serial no. 109435, Cal. .30 Army, SRC, 22 round bbl.
I lived in New Zealand for many years and saw a lot of .303 calibre Model 95’s come up for sale at various auctions. They were about the same in popularity in NZ as .30 US calbre. This is not scientific as I did not keep count, but just an estimate over the years.
Regards
AanD
Sydney
That makes sense. If anyone comes across current or past auction listings with ’95s on the internet from outside the USA, feel free to send me an email or PM if you’d like.
Thanks,
Brad
Hi Brad,
here the datas from my M1895s:
SN: 24564, Standard rifle, 38-72 WCF, 26″ octagon barrel, standard sights, rifle buttplate, factory letter:
Date in: 3-7-1900
Type: Rifle
Caliber: 38/72
Date shipped: 8-24-1900
Order: 68985
SN: 82048, Standard rifle, 35 WCF, 24″ round barrel, standard sights, rifle buttplate
SN: 409276, TD rifle, 405 WCF, 26″ round barrel, standard sights, shotgun steel buttplate, left side of receiver marked “Manton & Co. Calcutta”, top of barrel marked “RUTLAM” and “20”
Happy new year
Steff
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