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Anyone researching the model 1873?
January 18, 2019
3:13 pm
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If you do not have the lower tang (with the original serial number on it), you cannot prove that it was a "special order" rifle, or what its original as built configuration was... the factory records are useless to you without the serial number. Without being able to prove what it originally was, restoring it is not really possible or advisable.

Bert

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January 18, 2019
3:55 pm
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Butch,

You said the lever was gone but the lower tang has the serial number on it, is the lower tang with the gun? If the lower tang is gone I suspect the gun has already been restored using another gun and they used the tang over.

Bob

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January 18, 2019
5:04 pm
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No tang. Find it rather unlikely someone would build a gun from just the tang. Particularly it being a 36" half octagon barreled gun, of which MAYBE 3 or 4 at the most were manufactured...

January 18, 2019
5:30 pm
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Butch13778@yahoo.com said
No tang. Find it rather unlikely someone would build a gun from just the tang. Particularly it being a 36" half octagon barreled gun, of which MAYBE 3 or 4 at the most were manufactured...  

This is exactly the type of gun that would be rebuilt.  If someone ran the serial number and all the features you mention are in the records money can be made on this one.  Now the question is how honest is the re-builder?

January 18, 2019
5:40 pm
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Actually it seems quite plausible that someone would “recreate” a rifle using the parts taken from a damaged rifle.  It’s quite possible the heat of the fire has weakened the receiver and rendered it unsafe to fire, possibly damaging the action parts as well. Using the parts your rifle is missing to “upgrade” a more common 1873 would increase the perceived value of the recipient rifle.

 

Mike

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January 18, 2019
6:18 pm
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TXGunNut said
Actually it seems quite plausible that someone would “recreate” a rifle using the parts taken from a damaged rifle.  It’s quite possible the heat of the fire has weakened the receiver and rendered it unsafe to fire, possibly damaging the action parts as well. Using the parts your rifle is missing to “upgrade” a more common 1873 would increase the perceived value of the recipient rifle.

 

Mike  

It is not plausible, it is actual fact that this stuff is done.  One of my mentors was a restorer/destroyer of Winchesters.  Guns were built around a tang and once an engraved 66 was built around a receiver.  The receiver was all that had survived years of sitting in the bottom of a lake.

January 18, 2019
7:03 pm
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Look at it this way.  Let's say you have your beat to death grandfathers 1894 that has had the barrel and magazine shortened, the butt stock was severely broken when he was protecting grandma's virtue outside a bar one night and there is no bluing anywhere to be seen.  You take it to be restored.  A new barrel is made.  A new magazine is made.  A new butt stock is made.  A new fore end is made.  The receiver is buffed and re-blued.  Ta Da!!  You have just recreated a rifle built around the  serialized part of the gun.  In this case it happens to be the receiver.  

The question on the 1873 might be if the "creator" of a new rifle is so darn good why does he need the original tang anyway??  I know having it eliminates the possibility of a duplicate rifle possibly showing up.

Michael

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January 18, 2019
8:01 pm
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Without a tang and no serial number to start with you have to find the serial number if you want a correct collector gun. How much is it going to cost in Cody research to find a 73 in 38 cal with a 36" half octagon? If its a 3rd model you have over 600,000 records to check. You can probably narrow it down if you can see where the barrel address is and what upper tang marks it has. Then you still have the possibility of two guns with the same number.

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January 18, 2019
8:44 pm
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 Butch,  Over the years a lot of rare guns have been restored, the most cost effective way is use the tang and donor gun. If the gun is engraved and restored to mint then a new barrel, tube, and wood is necessary to engrave and checker. Engraving on a old barrel would be like repainting a rust pitted car, re- checkering old wood would be under size and not match a minty gun. This type of restoration has been done to many 1 of 1000's, which leads to more than one gun with the same serial number. Is the restored gun with the original tang the real gun or is it the one that is built with the left over original barrel and a tang with a freshly stamped serial number? That's why most collectors like original not restored guns. T/R  

January 18, 2019
10:23 pm
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January 18, 2019
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What are your thoughts of having Turnbull check it out?

January 18, 2019
10:28 pm
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What I DO KNOW is this IS an original 1873 36" Half round barrel.

How many are KNOWN to exist in ANY condition??

January 18, 2019
10:46 pm
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As for the records search at $50/hr, what a sham!

Any I.T. Pro will tell that 600k lines of data can be scanned in 2 days TOPS. After that another 24-48 hours and you have a COMPLETELY sortable database that can be sorted by ALL criteria. This database could be built in under a week for maybe $3k by a college kid, maybe even high school level.

But let's keep it secret and charge crazy fee's instead, this IS America afterall...

January 18, 2019
10:49 pm
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$50/hr to read, seriously??

January 18, 2019
11:02 pm
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Butch13778@yahoo.com said
What are your thoughts of having Turnbull check it out?  

If your going to have Turnbull build the gun $5000 minimum without engraving, checkering or plating. Turnbull will tell you what is possible and you can go from there.

As far as the records, Have you seen copies of the original records? I doubt there is a computer that could read hand written script and interpret the abbreviation etc.

Bob

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January 18, 2019
11:03 pm
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The ENTIRE Bible is available in searchable format for only $25, now how cam that be????

Hmmmm

January 18, 2019
11:20 pm
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Here is a sample of the ledger. There are pages that are simpler and others that are much worse.

Bob

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January 18, 2019
11:35 pm
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Butch13778@yahoo.com said
What are your thoughts of having Turnbull check it out?  

If you’re near Dallas this weekend he’s probably attending the Dallas Safari Club show at the convention center. He gives away beautiful calendars!

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Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
January 18, 2019
11:37 pm
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Hello

Are there any assembly numbers on the under side of the butt plate, the side of the upper tang and the in letting of the butt stock.  If this truly is/was an engraved special order gun the numbers should be present and match.  Otherwise the previous owner sold you a partially cannibalized rifle and a good story.

Michael

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January 19, 2019
1:08 am
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If the gun has been in a fire I doubt the wood is original.

Bob

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January 19, 2019
1:23 am
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1873man said
If the gun has been in a fire I doubt the wood is original.

Bob  

I agree Bob.  It most certainly would be SO helpful if Butch would post some photos of what he has so that we can actually see it.  And include all fo the stamped writing on the gun.

Michael

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