July 10, 2005
November 2, 2009
May 2, 2009
May 23, 2009
Maverick has been doing some research into tools and molds so he might have some idea.
Thanks for remembering! My research is still on-going and at a slow crawl at best, but hey anything worth doing well takes a while.
To answer the question. The current and long held assumption is that Winchester Reloading Tools stop being produced in the year 1916. Lewis Yearout mentions in his monogram with catalog No. 80 dated 1916 all information, prices, pictures, or any data pertaining to Loading Tools or Bullet Molds is completely absent. He also mentions Winchester's position as stated on page 192 of the catalog, top of the paragraph reads "Reloading Smokeless Powder Cartridges Impracticable". The same statement is repeated in the No. 81 1918 on page 145. I think that for the most part using the catalogs in this manner is a good assumption, but don't believe to be end all say all. This is certainly true about other aspects of Winchester Collecting.
However, Winchester had been using such statements about reloading with smokeless powder as early as 1905 (and I believe even before then). I do believe that "possibly" sales to the general public may have ceased in 1916, but I'm still researching this. My current belief is that they continued to sell / provide Loading Tools to their dealers. Winchester would annually release to their dealers "Revised Prices" of the products offered for sale. I'm currently trying to figure out what years they were produced these Revised Prices Lists, but imagine it was done for a long time in one form or another. The bottom left corner typically states "Destroy All Previous Quotations", so that doesn't help the matter. I have seen a dated August 21, 1915 Revised Price List that shows Loading Tools & Gun Parts listed with the Factory discount to the dealer and the Recommended price for sales & retail. The next one I have come across after that one is dated Feb. 15, 1919, the Revised Price List that shows Loading Tools & Gun Parts listed. So I believe this to be substantial proof that Loading Tools would have been provided to dealers for certain until 1919. Now was this a "Parts Clean-Up" for several years with stock on hand, or were they still actually being produced? Still researching this, among many other questions I have.
Also, Tom Quigley knows of a bullet mold that has providence as being bought brand new possibly in the 1920s by the original owner. But its unclear if the mold sat around the store for some years before being sold, as it is a rare mold and caliber. Also not certain if it was bought from a regular Winchester Dealer or from some other type of merchant. So possibly Loading Tools may have been produced into the 1920s, but am not certain of this. I would imagine with the company ownership and agreement with forming the Winchester-Simmons company in the 1920s changed the on-goings of the factory. As certain products were dropped and a whole new line of products introduced with that merger.
If anyone has a collection of these "Revised Price" lists to dealers, I would very much like to speak to them. I would imagine such a collection of them would be some rare paper ephemera, as seeing they were supposed to be destroyed when new prices were issued. I had posted this very topic a few months back. winchester-revised-price-list-to-dealers-info-wanted
The latest or newest boxed Winchester Loading Tool I have in my collection dates to December 1913. I also have yet to come across any boxed tools that are newer that it, but would not be surprised at all to find one newer. Only time will tell such a thing.
Hope this long explanation answers your question.
Also if any of you gentlemen would like to contribute to my survey, it would be most appreciated.
July 10, 2005
May 23, 2009
Good info! Thank you.
I have a real nice Model 1894 tool in 32 Special and need a decapping pin for it. I check E-Bay frequently. Is there a source for these scarce little items, original or reproduction? Bill Loos used to make them. Cheers!
A lot of 1894 Tools or Winchester Reloading Tools in general for that matter will be missing their original de-capping pin, as they're easily lost. To find a correct original pin will take you some time, and most the pins out there will have the appropriate tool to go with them. Also doubt most people would sell you the pin separate from the Tool.
There are a couple of guys out there that are making "reproduction" pins. You can usually stumble across them on Ebay. They are trying to pass them off as original pins and may even tell you they are original. One guy in California claims "he doesn't know if they are original or not". They are not. They usually will be slightly off on the dimensions of an original pin. They won't have the correct markings on them and usually the bluing doesn't match. There is a guy on the northeast that makes nearly identical "reproduction" pins that will come up for sale every once in a while. Most people probably wouldn't know is pins are repos. His pins are expensive, well made, and you don't see them for sell that often.
For the simple purpose of using the reloading tool, those Ebay pins are a good replacement. Or simply using a modern brand decapper from RCBS or the like will do the job, as I'm sure your well aware. Alot of guys will also simply use Ideal decapping pins.
Example Repo Pin - The sixth picture on the listing shows the common type of reproduction pin I'm referring to. Although I will say I haven't seen these repo pins showing up as often as I used too.
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