Winchester 38-55 Ammo with three amounts of blackpowder|Winchester Memorabilia|Forum|Winchester Collector

mrcvs said
As black powder must be compressed with no dead air space when loading, to decrease the quantity of grains of blackpowder (volume), a filler must be used.  Any ideas as to what Winchester used as a filler?  

I’ve never actually disassembled a period Short Range cartridge, so not exactly certain. But image they simply used a wad or wads that they also sold to the public. Likely both a card wad and felt wad and possibly multiple depending on the need. 

For reloading their own cartridges the company sold to the public from the beginning in 1874 till after they stopped selling the tools they even continued to sell Patch Paper, Lubricating Material, Pasteboard Wads, and Wad Cutters.

The wad cutters we sold per specific caliber that needed them and were included in a set of tools. Then in the December 1896 catalog Wad Cutters were added to the price list at $0.50.

Patch Paper was sold per the “quire” at $0.40 (quire =24 sheets of paper; one twentieth of a ream). Lube Material sold per lb $0.35. Pasteboard wads (A stiff thick kind of paper board, formed of several single sheets pasted one upon another) sold per 1,000 at $0.20.

So depending on what you were loading you could have your needs met. A lot Sharps type cartridges were loaded with a paper patched bullet and you would have a grease cookie behind the bullet. Some period writings indicate shooters would use actual playing cards for cutting their own card wads. 

The Short Range bullets will have only one cannelure (grease groove) on them. I can’t find my picture of the 38-55 S.R. mold, but here is one in 25-35 S.R.

The October 1898 catalog noted, “Bullet molds, except for short range bullets, cannot be furnished for 25-35wcf, 30wcf, or 30US Army cartridges.” The 20 grain loading for the 38-55 Short Range was the standard black powder loading. WRACo for some years also recommended 10 or 11 grains (depending on the year of the literature) of No.2 DuPont Smokeless Powder loading for the 38-55 Short Range. 

Steff,

I not sure why the one box is marked for 48 grains, unless it has to do with switching to the “Solid Head” cartridge, so the case would now hold less powder than before. Have you tried dating these boxes?

Sincerely,

Maverick

Steff the fist box was manufactured in 1885 or 1886.  Prior to 1885 the Win Single Shot was not shown on the box.  In 1887 the powder was reduced to 48 grs.  The second box was manufactured after 1886.  The 3rd box is the rarest.

We need pictures of the side labels and head stamp for the 3rd one.

Thanks, I sent the pictures to Ray Giles.  This a later box because of the round corners and the center fire call out. 

The 38-55 Short Range box is post 1906. On the end label it has the added Red W label with the 6-6 Date Code = June 1906.

The box is likely in the 1906-1907 timeframe. As I believe they started putting the words Trade Mark on the box top labels by 1907.

Sincerely,

Maverick

Maverick that is what Ray says.  The post Awaiting Moderation is Rays response.

“Chuck, I just responded on the WACA thread:

The primary labels are 1900-1902 but the “Red W” end labels date the box to 1906-7.”

RTG

If you read rtgammo’s post (Ray Giles)  the info for the dating of the box is there.  I don’t know what he thinks of the value?

Here is a label that Steff sent me.  The date is the first date the label was used.

If I can get off my lazy butt I will post a couple pics of the Winchester 32-40 and 38-55 pre 1885.  These just have the Marlin Ballard call out.

Chuck said
If I can get off my lazy butt I will post a couple pics of the Winchester 32-40 and 38-55 pre 1885.  These just have the Marlin Ballard call out.  

I pulled all of the ammo out of my safe and all I found was the first boxes that said for the 1885.  I thought I had some earlier boxes, but I guess I don’t.

Sorry.