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November 7, 2015
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Thanks for the history lesson, Bill. I’ll always be a fan of the Model 70 but it’s easy even for me to see the M700 receiver is a simpler and apparently stonger design. I may be mistaken on both points but if I’m right a simpler design saves production costs and a stronger design makes it possible to build a stiffer and possibly more accurate rifle. A long action Winchester M70 will always have a hard time keeping up with the short action M700 but I’ll never be able to prove it.
Barreled action came out of the stock minimal drama, a good hard pull and no foul language. Epoxy looks good. I think bedding jobs will always make me nervous, I’ll never do enough of them to feel comfortable. I’m no gunsmith, I remind myself of that fact now and then!
Mike
September 19, 2014
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Mike, there is a reason to be nervous. Body and mind trying to preserve selves. Personally, I like your loading room as it appears. I think you would be comfortable in mine. Clean mine up and I won’t find anything. Tim
January 20, 2023
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TXGunNut said
A long action Winchester M70 will always have a hard time keeping up with the short action M700 but I’ll never be able to prove it.
It’s already been proven in the marketplace for custom “accuracy” rifles. Not by brand because the Remington brand is out of the firearms business. On the other hand, the essential Model 700 DESIGN is being replicated by everybody and his dog who builds high dollar “hunting” rifles using “blueprinted” M700 clone actions apparently made of fairy dust, mated up to Lilja or other premium barrels and bedded in hand-laid glass stocks painted in whatever pattern and color your heart desires. Topped with a scope that costs more than my first house.
Apparently these are the “custom” rifles du jure – my brother in law has one and it will certainly kill a South Texas Whitetail and put ammunition it likes into a half inch at 200 yards. It is not cheap.
But I would trade three of them for TedK’s custom Model 70 built by Len Brownell. Any day, rain or shine.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
December 21, 2006
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Well this is a custom I’ve had for many years. My youngest brother was in a car crash when He was 19 which left Him a parapalegic. He had got a special license to shoot varmints from the sholder of the road while remaining in the vehicle. He had this gun built for Him, in 1970, by Ellwood Epps , a well known local shop and gun smith,at the time. Sadly Vern, one of My hero’s, passed away in 1982. I kept the rifle and have used it on occasion. It is a Mauser action in 6mm Rem. and from a (car window), rest, is lethal for a ground hog at 400 yards. I hope to someday give it to one of His grand kids. 
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
November 7, 2015
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Henry Mero said
Well this is a custom I’ve had for many years. My youngest brother was in a car crash when He was 19 which left Him a parapalegic. He had got a special license to shoot varmints from the sholder of the road while remaining in the vehicle. He had this gun built for Him, in 1970, by Ellwood Epps , a well known local shop and gun smith,at the time. Sadly Vern, one of My hero’s, passed away in 1982. I kept the rifle and have used it on occasion. It is a Mauser action in 6mm Rem. and from a (car window), rest, is lethal for a ground hog at 400 yards. I hope to someday give it to one of His grand kids.
Very nice, Harry. Not too many gunsmiths using laminated stocks back then, good to see an old school ‘smith making it work. I always thought laminated wood made a rifle too heavy but in your brother’s case it didn’t make much difference.
Mike
March 31, 2009
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Zebulon said
On the other hand, the essential Model 700 DESIGN is being replicated by everybody and his dog who builds high dollar “hunting” rifles using “blueprinted” M700 clone actions apparently made of fairy dust, mated up to Lilja or other premium barrels and bedded in hand-laid glass stocks painted in whatever pattern and color your heart desires. Topped with a scope that costs more than my first house.
Apparently these are the “custom” rifles du jure – my brother in law has one and it will certainly kill a South Texas Whitetail and put ammunition it likes into a half inch at 200 yards. It is not cheap.
But I would trade three of them for TedK’s custom Model 70 built by Len Brownell. Any day, rain or shine.
Quite a few, if not the majority, high end actions are a modified version of a Remington 700. All 3 of my custom actions for my target rifles are. Usually the scope is the most expensive part. The action is next and finally the stock. Thing is, all 3 of these will last a life time. Same with spotting scopes. Buy once and cry once.
November 7, 2015
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First range trip was quite enlightening if not a bit anticlimactic. Scope doesn’t adjust well (Redfield Revolution) but I finally herded those wandering crosshairs to a useful location. First five shot group was pretty good until the loose nut behind the butt had his way. I think I need to work on that before doing any more load development. This is what I call load #53, I assign all unique component combinations a load number, any variation in powder charge or seating depth is denoted by a letter suffix. Since this is a new bullet for me it’s a new load. Seems I SWAG’d pretty close, will need to work a little harder on my trigger control and follow through!
Mike
(errant shot is actually to the right of the group.)
April 15, 2005
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Nice group! 
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 7, 2015
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Thanks, Bert. Sierra manual listed 54.5gr of IMR 4350 for 2700fps and the Hodgdon site listed 54.0 IMR 4350 for 2720 so after perusing my other manuals and load records I figured 54.5grs would be a good place to start. Gonna need to up my game to do any load development!
Mike
April 15, 2005
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TXGunNut said
Thanks, Bert. Sierra manual listed 54.5gr of IMR 4350 for 2700fps and the Hodgdon site listed 54.0 IMR 4350 for 2720 so after perusing my other manuals and load records I figured 54.5grs would be a good place to start. Gonna need to up my game to do any load development!
Mike
With a group like that, I would call it a day on the “load development” efforts. I have never been able to get my old Winchester Model 54 to shoot better than 1 MOA, and most times it is 1.5 MOA.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 7, 2015
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Bert H. said
TXGunNut said
Thanks, Bert. Sierra manual listed 54.5gr of IMR 4350 for 2700fps and the Hodgdon site listed 54.0 IMR 4350 for 2720 so after perusing my other manuals and load records I figured 54.5grs would be a good place to start. Gonna need to up my game to do any load development!
Mike
With a group like that, I would call it a day on the “load development” efforts. I have never been able to get my old Winchester Model 54 to shoot better than 1 MOA, and most times it is 1.5 MOA.
Bert
I must admit I was looking forward to a load development adventure, it seems I’ll be better off focusing on shooter development. That was one of the goals of this project. I think I’ll order a couple hundred more of those bullets and follow your advice. Most days I’m not an MOA shooter, as far as the gun goes it seems my work here is done. I’ll load up some more of this load and have some fun!
Mike
September 19, 2014
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Mike, welcome to the consuming world of shooter development. I amongst many could use the same help as I am pretty sure I am the main variable now. It takes a truly accurate rifle shooting truly accurate ammunition to find the next loose nut to adjust. Tim PS. The action on my truly accurate rifle is a Stolle Panda action. Basically a model 700 clone in hard anodized aluminum alloy of some kind.
November 7, 2015
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tim tomlinson said
Mike, welcome to the consuming world of shooter development. I amongst many could use the same help as I am pretty sure I am the main variable now. It takes a truly accurate rifle shooting truly accurate ammunition to find the next loose nut to adjust. Tim PS. The action on my truly accurate rifle is a Stolle Panda action. Basically a model 700 clone in hard anodized aluminum alloy of some kind.
Thanks, Tim. It’s a project that will be a perennial challenge but it’s very enjoyable. I can never identify a favorite gun but I enjoy the rifles that shoot better than I do, even if it’s just something I threw together. 
Full disclosure; I’ve been developing loads for this cartridge in a very similar rifle for decades. There are better powders and better rifles out there but I had a bit of a head start on this project.
Mike
November 7, 2015
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tim tomlinson said
Mike, welcome to the consuming world of shooter development. I amongst many could use the same help as I am pretty sure I am the main variable now. It takes a truly accurate rifle shooting truly accurate ammunition to find the next loose nut to adjust. Tim PS. The action on my truly accurate rifle is a Stolle Panda action. Basically a model 700 clone in hard anodized aluminum alloy of some kind.
Thanks, Tim. It’s a project that will be a perennial challenge but it’s very enjoyable. I can never identify a favorite gun but I enjoy the rifles that shoot better than I do, even if it’s just something I threw together. Full disclosure; I’ve been developing loads for this cartridge in a very similar rifle for decades. There are better powders and better rifles out there but I had a bit of a head start on this project.
Mike
November 7, 2015
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Did a bad thing today, made two changes to my load. Group on left I went up 2.5 grains on the powder charge from previous load AND went from standard 9 1/2 RP to 9 1/2M. Group on right I cranked the scope down 16 clicks and fired the same powder charge with standard primers. I’ve read IMR 4350 may require magnum primers in this cartridge and I’m inclined to agree. Ran out of time before firing additional groups. Back to the loading manuals!
Mike
( of course pic got rotated 90 degrees!)
March 31, 2009
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TXGunNut said
Did a bad thing today, made two changes to my load. Group on left I went up 2.5 grains on the powder charge from previous load AND went from standard 9 1/2 RP to 9 1/2M. Group on right I cranked the scope down 16 clicks and fired the same powder charge with standard primers. I’ve read IMR 4350 may require magnum primers in this cartridge and I’m inclined to agree. Ran out of time before firing additional groups. Back to the loading manuals!
Mike
( of course pic got rotated 90 degrees!)
Ah, sounds like something I just did. Never make multiple changes when doing load development. I tried it yesterday and now I have to re shoot some to identify what caused what. I’m good at going backwards. I am playing with a different way to set my neck tension, using different powder charges and different bullet seating depths. Shot five, five shot groups. Three were terrible and the other two not really great.
March 3, 2020
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Looks like you’re getting there, that one group isn’t too bad! I’m thinking that with a bit more tinkering you should be able to get it sub-MOA, especially since the action is bedded….. is the barrel free floated as well?
My .308 version of your rifle shoots just under MOA, it is pillar bedded. The .270 shoots just as well and it is as received…. I did not take it out of its stock so I don’t know if it has been fooled with, but since it shoots under 1 MOA I’m inclined to leave it as-is. 150gr Sierra GameKing, and 130gr Nosler Ballistic Tip, respectively. As you can see, I favor H4895 because I have over 16 pounds of the stuff. 
308
.270
November 7, 2015
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Thanks, John. I think 4895 would probably be a better powder for me but I have almost as much IMR4350 as you do H4895. Yes, I floated the barrel channel on the new stock and epoxy bedded the recoil lug and around the front pillar. I think this rifle actually likes my hunting load better than any of the loads I’ve been tinkering with but it’s the result of decades of tweaking after years of development. I need to fire two more five-shot groups with those latest loads before I make any more changes but I’m thinking my load benefitted from both changes, Chuck. I know better but sometimes I get lucky. I’m thinking RP 9 1/2 standard primers may not be achieving good ignition in this load. I hope I’m wrong because I have a few thousand of them and only 80 9 1/2 Magnum primers and no Federal 210 primers. Good thing my levergun loads don’t seem to require magnum primers!
Mike
November 7, 2015
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I may have discovered one possible cause for the accuracy issues this old 670 is experiencing. Last range session it liked my hunting load (again!) but had a few fliers. the 57 grain IMR4350 load I keep finding reference to seem a bit warm for this rifle as the R-P 9 1/2 primers were beginning to crater. I finally got a glimpse into the muzzle in good light after this session and saw significant copper fouling. I’ve run solvent and patches through it but I generally don’t try to get all the fouling out as my other 670 shot better with a slightly fouled bore. Had no idea it was so heavily fouled! Even after some vigorous scrubbing (nylon brush!) and patching a bore scope exam last night showed more copper visible than steel. Before this project I hadn’t shot this rifle much so I don’t know if it was already fouled by the previous owner or if the fouling has occurred recently. I also found some pitting about halfway down the bore, seems odd in a 40-something year old rifle. I have some Foul-Out foaming cleaner in there now, will give that a chance to work before I move on to Iosso or JB paste. It’s been awhile since I used J-word bullets, my cast lead bullets seldom foul a bore other than powder and lube residue.
Mike
January 20, 2023
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Mike, let me know how the Foul Out works for you. Is it at all corrosive? I’ve never used it.
I do worry about your investigations with a bore scope. That way can lead to madness. A few pits, if not jagged edged or too near either end, may not adversely affect hunting accuracy at all with jacketed bullets.
There are kits that will.let you self ceramic coat a bore. I think you apply it and “shoot it in.”
If the bore is well and truly copper-fouled and you want it back to ground zero, there should be some Smith up there with an electrolysis rig..
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
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