This was a recent tangential topic on another thread and I did quite a bit of reflecting this morning.
My reloading history covers many tangents – each with their own reason for why reloading made sense to me.
Tangents for me:
1. The economics angle for sure. Many start reloading just for this reason. I’ve always disliked paying factory ammunition prices and knew doing show would limit my shooting to much less than I wanted.
2. The experience of ammunition shortages as well as component shortages. If you are a reloader, there is the overwhelming probability that you will stock up/hoard components.
3. The obsolete and semi-obsolete cartridge angle. Over the last nearly 50 years I’ve owned many rifles for which cartridges have been commercially non-available. In more recent years, there have been many smaller companies that specialize in obsolete loaded cartridges, but that didn’t used to be nearly the case. And by the way, even though availability is much better now (e.g. if you want a loaded box of .33 WCF), the price is typically very high.
4. Performance. I’m not one to hot-rod old lever cartridges, but many of these cartridges, when last loaded by the factory, are very anemic. This might be fine for punching paper, but hunting is another story. For example, were I to hunt deer with one of my M1892 .44-40’s or M1894 .38-55’s, I would be loading my own as performance can be much enhanced beyond factory ballistic – safely.
5. Accuracy. Loading you own allows you to tune the accuracy of your loads to your specific rifle. The bullet/powder/primer combinations are often endless. I have a .45-90 here. For my first range trip I brought a box of special run PMC .45-90 ammo – loaded with lead bullets. Accuracy was miserable – about four feet MOA. I was not real surprised as the bore was rough. I load up some .300 grain jacketed softpoints and quickly got 50-yard two-inch groups. There’s also the prospect of limitless obsessive pursuit of accuracy (e.g. primer brand, primer depth, bullet seating dept, sorting cases by weight, using only components with matching lot numbers – this can be a very long list).
6. Versality and wide variety of choices. For example, I have many .30 caliber rifles and I have the option (and bullets on hand) to use bullets that range from 100 grains to 250 grains. There are a great many bullets out there (e.g. premium brands) that are not available in factory ammunition. Another example, I have the versatility to use .357 pistol bullets in my .35 Whelan Improved and turn it into a very different rifle. Another recent favorite has been to load 235 grain Speer jackets bullets fueled by Trail Boss in my .375 H&H rifle. This makes it fun for my wife, grandkids (and me) to shoot. I have countless examples of this.
7. Specialty cartridges. Another tangent in my history had been a couple-decade foray into wildcat cartridges. And a subset of that was nostalgic wildcat cartridges. Examples were .270 Ackley Magnum, .270 Gibbs, 8mm Gibbs, .375 Taylor, .416 Taylor, .450 Watts, .510 Wells. You can’t own rifles in these cartridges and not load you own. Another subset of specialty cartridges are those cartridges that are not wildcats but you can’t really afford to shoot them. When I had my .330 Dakota, I never owned a box of factory ammunition but was able to load for it very economically. Just for fun, I just now did an internet search for a box of .330 ammo. I couldn’t come up with a single box.
8. The intellectual stimulation/intrigue and opportunity to expand knowledge, problem-solving ability and distract yourself from the everyday frustrations of life. I suspect others here will resonate when I say that the reloading bench (and stool) is a place of refuge and focus where the outside world can be shut out. I’m not a Zen master but I view time at the loading bench as Zen-like. It is a wonderful blend of progressive knowledge and skill building with endless opportunity for refinement. As I write this my memory is jogged to Mike Venturino’s chapter on loading the .33 WCF when he hit on the idea of using very different powders from what was printed in the loading manuals. That’s what’s called, “advanced handloading” and I advise spending a lot of years at your loading bench before blazing a new trail such as that. There’s a fair bit of territory here that is no place for a beginner.
I bought my first set of dies at an LGS when I lived in a small town in Wyoming. It was a set of Pacific .32 Special dies (is anyone here surprised?) – I still have them and use them. They are the only set of .32 Special dies I’ve owned. They work as well as the day I bought them. I bought an RCBS Big Max at that time. It too, is the only loading press I’ve ever owned. I can’t begin to count how many rounds I’ve loaded on the at press. From .380 ACP to .510 Wells. I’ve also done a fair bit of case forming on it. At this point, I’m confident it will outlast me.
I think about had I never bought that first set of dies – never started handloading – I would have missed out on an amazing amount of gigabytes of knowledge, stored experience and ever-evolving skill.
Here’s a bit of reloading eye candy for illustration:
Here’s some handloading candy. Pictures are five dies that go together to make .32-40 Bullard cartridges – first forming them from .220 Swift brass. RCBS made these custom dies and provide step-by-step instructions to form the cases.
Next:
.510 Wells. Formed from .460 Weatherby brass (expanded to .51 caliber). The long loaded round has a .50 caliber 750 gr. BMG bullet. This round of course couldn’t feed the magazine. But not only that, it could be loaded by simply opening the action and single-loading it – it was too long. The bolt has to be taken out, the cartridge inserted, and the bolt put back in. Also shows are Barnes 600 and 700 grain bullets in both homogenous and soft point style. I don’t miss this rifle. One problem was the stock fit me very poorly (not ideal for a cartridge that generates close to about 10,000 foot pounds). Also, there was no recoil reducing device such as a brake or magnaport style cuts. And finally, a pound of powder didn’t last real long.
You’ve nailed the subject. Handloading can be very satisfying on many levels. As an impoverished student who liked to shoot centerfire anything, I had no choice and my Lee Loaders were a Godsend.
These days, the economics make plenty of sense and, if you are fascinated like me with obsolete cartridges, you still don’t have a choice. Unless you are so rich and careless with money that popping off 200 factory 25/20 rounds at the range — [urinating] away six hundred forty bucks in an afternoon — just makes you giggle.
I’m not even going to talk about the care and feeding of a .45-90 WCF, a .458 Magnum or a .351 SL. Factory ammo for those is beyond sinful; it is evil.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
Zebulon said
You’ve nailed the subject. Handloading can be very satisfying on many levels. As an impoverished student who liked to shoot centerfire anything, I had no choice and my Lee Loaders were a Godsend.These days, the economics make plenty of sense and, if you are fascinated like me with obsolete cartridges, you still don’t have a choice. Unless you are so rich and careless with money that popping off 200 factory 25/20 rounds at the range — [urinating] away six hundred forty bucks in an afternoon — just makes you giggle.
I’m not even going to talk about the care and feeding of a .45-90 WCF, a .458 Magnum or a .351 SL. Factory ammo for those is beyond sinful; it is evil.
Bill –
I’ve owned several .458’s. They are an ideal candidate for handloading. I never fired a factory round in any of my .458’s. I also never loaded a single round up to full factory ballistics. With 300, 350, 400, 405 and 500 grain bullets, the .458 can be anything you want it to be. From duplicating light Trapdoor Springfield loads, to more powerful .45-70 loads all the way to elephant class loads, the .458 can be most anything you want it to be. I’ve always liked .458 bore rifles and had three different .458×2″ (.458 American) custom rifles. One, I had made into Scout rifle version and my son carried that rifle for Minnesota deer hunting one or two seasons. This cartridge is strictly a handloading proposition of course. Like its big brother it is very versatile. I became very interested in this cartridge in my late teens. I had purchased a book called “Home Gunsmithing Digest” by Frank Barnes and in it he had an article titled, “Let’s Build a .458 American.” I was smitten. It took me a few years but eventually I had three of them.
November 7, 2015

When I started reloading I figured out how many rounds it would take to “break even” loading a pistol cartridge for my duty gun. Then the 30-06. Within a few years I was a PPC shooter and I was spending more time loading .38’s than shooting them. Mike Dillon sent me one of his first 550’s. The instructions were Xerox copies and each time something broke I was informed their comp shooter had just run into that and the improved part, often with handwritten instructions, was on the way…gratis. That old 550 still has a place of honor on my bench, there’s a tub of old parts nearby. That forty-something year old 550 has loaded somewhere in the neighborhood of half a million rounds of 38 Special, 9MM, 40 S&W, 45 ACP and lately the 380 ACP. I seldom pull the cover off anymore unless my social equipment needs practice fodder. I would have never been able to compete without that old 550. I’ve been to Nationals four times, dozens of state and regional matches and goodness knows how many local matches. Even dabbled in BE, plate matches and the occasional patrol rifle match. Never was much good at any of them but it sure was fun!
Nowadays I use the old RCBS Reloader Special single stage press I started out with. I load several “Cowboy” and other cartridges partly because, as Steve noted, commercial “Cowboy” ammo is very anemic and inconsistent. It’s built to knock down a big target at short range in a hurry. I can’t afford a wild rag, let alone a case of this junk.
But yes, my reloading setup “paid for itself” before I quit competing over 20 years ago. Then I discovered bullet casting and Winchesters in obsolete cartridges. At one time I SWAG’d it cost me $500 to explore a new cartridge if I had to buy loading dies, brass, bullet moulds, sizing dies and maybe gas checks. Nowadays it may cost $700-800, maybe more. That’s not counting maybe a new powder ($40/lb) or the powder measures, scales, casting furnaces or other tools I already have. I load for something over a dozen cartridges and have a couple dozen moulds with a full complement of brass, primers, powders, sizing dies, lead and gas checks so at this point I’m hoping to live long enough for these new toys to “pay for themselves”. If Vegas would name the odds I’d bet the other way….but I’m gonna have fun trying! Quite honestly my reloading room is modest compared to some folks here. I can’t put a price on the satisfaction or enjoyment I find in that room where the magic happens. Not everyone enjoys this type of pursuit and if you’re not mechanically inclined and detail oriented it could be frustrating or even dangerous.
Mike
Mike –
I enjoyed reading of your extensive history on this topic. I’m sure others enjoyed it as well. With this particular topic, we have people here who have more experience than either of us, and then those that have never touched a loading press handle but are interested. Some I sense, have passed the, “pre-contemplative stage” and agitating to take the plunge.
You make a great many excellent points and I want to follow up on your very last statement – concerning the potential danger to those who are not mechanically inclined or detail oriented. It’s just a simple reality that some people are not detail oriented. Some people have insight into this and some don’t (and those are at greatest risk). I’ll add another area – disciplined. Lacking in mechanical ability, detail and discipline makes handloading potentially more dangerous – particularly for beginners who don’t have the knowledge to appreciate trapdoors of risk to fall through.
As an example, pistol cartridges and pistol powders. This is what I consider a high risk area. Here, many pistol cases offer the opportunity to dump a double charge in the case – and not notice this. Most rifle cartridges don’t have a strong risk here as a double charge will likely overflow the case – your mistake becomes apparent. Often not so with pistol powders. So yes, you have to be careful but in my mind – that’s not enough – you need to have a system. My system for pistol cartridges is not to load them one at time – that is measure the powder and then immediately seat the bullet. True, you can proceed very carefully with this method, but it is easy for attention to wander for a split second. My system is to put all the cases in the loading tray and measure the powder into all the cases before proceeding to bullet-seating. Next, I have a small flashlight on my bench and after I’ve put powder in all the cases, I shine the flashlight into the tray and visually insure all the cases appear filled to the same depth. This takes almost no time. Also, if you happened to have missed charging a case, that is easily detected in this process.
Another example of caution is to discipline yourself to keep just one can of powder on your bench when loading. Just the can you are using with the rest kept in storage. Getting mixed up with powder – using the wrong powder – can lead to a very unfortunate event. Many of us know powder granulations by sight and are more likely to recognize a mistake. However, I mainly targeted the beginner audience who of course, start out with very little familiarity.
A final point before I move on: Always keep powders in original containers and don’t use an empty container for a different powder. This is why I don’t buy partial cans of powder at gun shows. Here’s an example of what people can do. They use up a container and put a different powder in it. Maybe it’s a one pound container and they have a full 8 pound jug of a different powder. It’s not handy to use the 8 pound jug so they siphon off some of it into the one pound container. They believe they are being cautious by creating a correct label and they tape it to the container. Eventually (e.g. as the years go by) that label falls off. Eventually, they pass away and all their reloading stuff gets brought to a gun show. By the then, the label has fallen off and just maybe you’ve got a partial container that states it is rifle powder but it’s filled with pistol powder.
Basically, all that I have mentioned above (and much more) is outlined in the various loading manuals in the initial chapters, which provide instruction on this topic. When I first started loading, someone gave me the advice to buy several loading manuals at the beginning. I purchased four: Hornady, Lyman, Speer and Nosler. I still have them all and have added several. When I did this, I was in for a surprise. The data (for the same cartridge – bullet, primer, powder all the same) was not all the same! Handloading is a learning, thinking, pondering process. Oh, fun too
Steve004,
It’s interesting you fill all cases all at once and then seat the bullet. I do the opposite, which you decry. Now mistakes always can happen, but if you have ONE pan on the scale going into ONE case in which ONE bullet is seated, the chances of a double charge are minimized. Plus, when you have a manual scale and have to add or subtract powder to get a proper charge makes you more cognizant of weighing out a single charge as a double charge requires twice the effort.
I read with interest Steve’s comments. Never too late to learn something. My key takeaway is he is pushing having a system. Having a system makes it more likely you will notice any departure from the system as it doesn’t feel right. You are NEVER immune to potential for errors and as said, pistol reloading is the higher risk area. Two examples–one friend has deconstructed three pistols. One he used the wrong powder, the other two likely a double charge. While I shoot very little pistol now due to my tremors, I never would shoot any of his loads for sure! Actually I’ve never shot anyone’s loads in my pistols!! Second example is an old and highly respected hand loader (AND bullet caster. He gets calls from Lyman on casting questions) who grandly deconstructed a favorite revolver with a double charge. He was preoccupied as having some issue and was loading a cartridge at a time in increasing increments, test firing, when one had its way in changing the shape of his revolver! Likely interrupted and set a double charge. I tend to like the technique of charging a flat of cartridges and then looking in to see powder to a consistent depth inside. Heavy charges of slow powders will generally overflow, so its best used with target loads with a fast powder like 231 or Tightgroup. Never think you are immune! Don’t need to scare but it is important to be prudent!! Tim
mrcvs said
Steve004,It’s interesting you fill all cases all at once and then seat the bullet. I do the opposite, which you decry. Now mistakes always can happen, but if you have ONE pan on the scale going into ONE case in which ONE bullet is seated, the chances of a double charge are minimized. Plus, when you have a manual scale and have to add or subtract powder to get a proper charge makes you more cognizant of weighing out a single charge as a double charge requires twice the effort.
mrcvs –
I appreciate your comment. I use a powder measure, drop the charge into the scale pan and then with a trickle charger, adjust the powder. In a system like this, one is indeed very unlikely to weigh out a double charge and then dump it in the case. What I am talking about is mistakenly charging the case twice. Maybe a distraction comes along and you set the charged case on the bench and then pick it back up, not remembering that you’ve already charged it.
tim tomlinson said
I read with interest Steve’s comments. Never too late to learn something. My key takeaway is he is pushing having a system. Having a system makes it more likely you will notice any departure from the system as it doesn’t feel right. You are NEVER immune to potential for errors and as said, pistol reloading is the higher risk area. Two examples–one friend has deconstructed three pistols. One he used the wrong powder, the other two likely a double charge. While I shoot very little pistol now due to my tremors, I never would shoot any of his loads for sure! Actually I’ve never shot anyone’s loads in my pistols!! Second example is an old and highly respected hand loader (AND bullet caster. He gets calls from Lyman on casting questions) who grandly deconstructed a favorite revolver with a double charge. He was preoccupied as having some issue and was loading a cartridge at a time in increasing increments, test firing, when one had its way in changing the shape of his revolver! Likely interrupted and set a double charge. I tend to like the technique of charging a flat of cartridges and then looking in to see powder to a consistent depth inside. Heavy charges of slow powders will generally overflow, so its best used with target loads with a fast powder like 231 or Tightgroup. Never think you are immune! Don’t need to scare but it is important to be prudent!! Tim
Tim –
Your real world examples of how things can go wrong are very illustrative of what I’m talking about. Even highly experienced handloaders (as you point out) can have a bad outcome. All it takes is one bad round. You can fire tens of thousands of your handloads though a revolver – all goes fine – but that provides no protection from just one double-charged round.
Shooting others handloads is another good point. Don’t do it! There are many risky factors here. I was with someone who bought a box of reloads at a gunshow. The exact load was written on the box. He felt he was doing his due-diligence by checking the load against his loading manual. He said it checked out – under maximum. My response was, “how do you know that’s really what’s inside the cartridge?” And even if it is correct, how do would he know the precision and care used to assemble each cartridge? Even if you disassemble a round and weigh the powder, how do you know that that is the precise charge in every case – unless you disassemble every one? And of course, with most pistol rounds, disassembling every round is the only way you would know for sure there are no double charges. Maybe the previous loader wasn’t using a system
While I’m being quite the kill-joy, another factor to consider is the reality that everything is in a state of flux. That includes us. Some of us on this forum are not as young as we used to be – and I’ll (painfully admit) I’m not as young as I used to be. It’s part of the natural aging process that most of us lose some of our sharpness. Whether that is attention, concentration, focus, memory or similar, all of us are caught up in the, “aging process.” The extent to which we are self-aware declines are happening might not be strong (often those around us are more aware). I’m not saying that everyone past retirement age shoot give up handloading. I’m just suggesting that as time marches forward, sticking tightly to a system of doing things becomes an even greater friend.
Interesting discussion…
I myself use both methods (single loading and batch loading) depending on the specific cartridge and powder I am using. When I am loading for modern rifle cartridges, my powder selection almost always results in a minimum 85% case capacity load. In some instances, I have developed loads that are compressed loads (for example, 22 K-Hornet with 14 grains of Lil ‘Gun).
When I load using IMR 4198 for the older BP cartridges (40-70 Ballard, 40-70 Sharps Str, etc.) I load each cartridge one at a time, as it is possible to double charge the powder.
When loading pistol cartridges (and I only load 38 Spl/357 Mag and 44 Mag), I typically use a power that cannot be double charged. For the 44 Mag I use WW 296 and my load (not safe for use in anything except my Ruger Super Red Hawk) is 25-grains (under a 220 gr FMJ-SIL bullet). If you filled the case to overflowing, it holds 28-grains. The 25-grain load is compressed when seating the bullet.
My point in this discussion is this… when possible, try to select a powder that does not lend itself to being double charged in the specific cartridge you are loading. And Yes, I do understand the economics of using a powder type (Bullseye and Unique) that only require skimpy powder charges, allowing many more reloads from that 1-lb can of powder.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
Interesting discussion…I myself use both methods (single loading and batch loading) depending on the specific cartridge and powder I am using. When I am loading for modern rifle cartridges, my powder selection almost always results in a minimum 85% case capacity load. In some instances, I have developed loads that are compressed loads (for example, 22 K-Hornet with 14 grains of Lil’Gun).
When I load using IMR 4198 for the older BP cartridges (40-70 Ballard, 40-70 Sharps Str, etc).) I load each cartridge one at a time, as it is possible to double charge the powder.
When loading pistol cartridges (and I only load 38 Spl/357 Mag and 44 Mag), I typically use a power that cannot be double charged. For the 44 Mag I use WW 296 and my load (not safe for use in anything except my Ruger Super Red Hawk) is 25-grains (under a 220 gr FMJ-SIL bullet). If you filled the case to overflowing, it holds 28-grains. The 25-grain load is compressed when seating the bullet.
My point in this discussion is this… when possible, try to select a powder that does not lend itself to being double charged in the specific cartridge you are loading. And Yes, I do understand the economics of using a powder type (Bullseye and Unique) that only require skimpy powder charges, allowing many more reloads from that 1-lb can of powder.
Bert
Bert – excellent advice. I suspect most of those just getting set-up in handloading would never give this a consideration.
It amazes me some of you were actually acquainted with my old classmate, Dynamite Dave. There can’t have been more than one. Dave was convinced reloading manuals were written by girly men and considered published maximum .44 magnum loads a mere starting point. At least on the old FM 2222 range in the West Austin hills, Dave’s reputation was such that nobody wanted to shoot alongside him. Flying topstraps and cylinder walls were a possible hazard but the lateral blast waves from muzzle and cylinder gap were alone enough to drive prudent folk away. Dave had managed to destroy two Ruger Super Blackhawks and was considering a consumer fraud suit against Sturm Ruger, when I lost track of him.
I worked my way up from Lee Loaders for .38 Special/.357 Magnum, 6mm Remington and 20 gauge shells, to an RCBS Rockchucker, to a Hornady Projector, and probably finally to a Redding T7 turret press, I’ve used single stage batch, turret batch, and progressive loading. Although all three presses are in storage, I plan to set them up again, on an “ultimate” bench yet to be designed and built. ….
The Hornady progressive will be used for making revolver cartridges and .45 ACP practice loads. I don’t use powders on a progressive press that won’t overflow a double charge. Especially this late in life.
I batch load rifle ammunition and flashlight check every powdered case in the tray.
I don’t load shotgun shells — yet
If I’m spared, I’m going to take up bullet casting, at least for big bore rifle stuff, to follow in Steve’s footsteps.
And I still miss SR4759.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
November 7, 2015

One point touched on that I’d be remiss if I didn’t emphasize is the necessity of loading manuals. I know there are experienced reloaders that never use them, I wish them good luck and a speedy recovery. I have a dozen or more, I’ve read them all. Last one is probably 100 years old and contained information I wish I’d known decades ago! All have good safety tips and suggestions. I very seldom reveal my load specifics online and I am not a fan of websites that provide load data. IMHO, and I may be showing my age, a beginning loader needs to read a major reloading manual before he decides to reload. The best ones are much more than load charts. If one decides to reload I recommend reading a second manual as they get started. Personally I consult four or five when I’m contemplating a new load. They discuss some of the systems described above, I use several depending on the cartridge and load but I select a system that best addresses the situation and I stick with it. Often the equipment available affects the system used. I’ve bulged a heavy Douglas barrel with a squib load but that sometimes happens with factory loads. To date I’ve only had one gun go from together to apart but that was no fault of the ammo-and that was a factory load. I learned the value of a reference library long before I started collecting Winchesters, nice thing is most reloading manuals are quite inexpensive as they are often sold by the same folks who make loading components or tools.
Mike
TXGunNut said
One point touched on that I’d be remiss if I didn’t emphasize is the necessity of loading manuals. I know there are experienced reloaders that never use them, I wish them good luck and a speedy recovery. I have a dozen or more, I’ve read them all. Last one is probably 100 years old and contained information I wish I’d known decades ago! All have good safety tips and suggestions. I very seldom reveal my load specifics online and I am not a fan of websites that provide load data. IMHO, and I may be showing my age, a beginning loader needs to read a major reloading manual before he decides to reload. The best ones are much more than load charts. If one decides to reload I recommend reading a second manual as they get started. Personally I consult four or five when I’m contemplating a new load. They discuss some of the systems described above, I use several depending on the cartridge and load but I select a system that best addresses the situation and I stick with it. Often the equipment available affects the system used. I’ve bulged a heavy Douglas barrel with a squib load but that sometimes happens with factory loads. To date I’ve only had one gun go from together to apart but that was no fault of the ammo-and that was a factory load. I learned the value of a reference library long before I started collecting Winchesters, nice thing is most reloading manuals are quite inexpensive as they are often sold by the same folks who make loading components or tools.Mike
While I partially agree with you, modern reloading manuals have been written by lawyers for at least the past 35-years. The so called “maximum” safe loads listed in them today are significantly different than those listed in my reloading manuals from the 1930s, 1940s, 1950s, and 1960s. Also, I do not disregard the websites that list load data for specific cartridges & bullet weights… some of them are quite useful. The advice to consult and use multiple sources (manuals) is spot on. In recent years, I have acquired a set of these “One Book/One Caliber” manuals for many of the cartridges I reload as it condenses multiple reloading sources into to one small book.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 7, 2015

I use those sites at times, Bert, but we both know they are a poor substitute for a good manual. As for the conservative data published we both have experience with cartridges that perform best at or a bit above the published maximum loads but in the vast majority of the cartridges I load I reach an optimal load before I reach the published maximum for a given set of components. I like those “One Caliber” books as they represent a digest of several sources. As I have several of the sources they use I haven’t had much use for them. I don’t load for any new cartridges but the new powders always interest me. The powders I started out with use a different manufacturing process from many of the new powders and someday the old classic powders may not be available. The new powders are often much cleaner, I like that!
For a balanced look at a particular cartridge I’ll consult a bullet manufacturer’s manual (Speer, Hornady, Barnes, Nosler), a recent Hodgdon annual for an up to date look at powder, Lee’s manual as he lists a broad spectrum of components (including cast bullets!), one of Lyman’s manuals if applicable along with one of Mike Venturino’s books. I’ve also been known to peruse the Waters book as he often had valuable insight into a cartridge not always found in a manual. I also like to consult Williamson’s book now and then but he was a bit more comfortable with maximum loads than I am. Powder burn characteristics do change and vary a bit over time so I’ll always approach with caution.
Mike
A lot of good points to ponder. When loading black powder cartridges with modern powder you almost always use less than half the case capacity in the larger calibers. I have a typed list of my loading steps and I keep a post it note with the ammo I am working on so I know where I have left off. The last step before I seat the bullets is to check each case to make sure they are all charged and look like the same charge level. With my modern guns a second charge will spill out all over my loading bench.
Now days loading manuals are written by lawyers. I always reference them but I don’t always make my final decision based upon them. With the older guns I rely upon my chronograph so I never go over the factory black powder speed. Older manuals were using older less efficient powders. If you use these manuals start at least 10% lower or more.
Modern guns with modern powders are often shot above listed max. Modern manual max almost always has a built in safety factor. But I would not recommend going over this to anyone that doesn’t have some ballistic software that will actually calculate a specific pressure for your specific load. With my modern guns I always buy a manual from the bullet manufacturer and another from the powder manufacturer. I refer to both and sometimes a few more. Not all manuals calculate the Max the same way. So I have about a dozen up to date manuals.
With Wildcats and match rifles there are ways to determine the point where you start to get “pressure”. We find this point then never shoot at this charge weight Most will find an accurate load way before the max charge weight. Even hunters who want the most down range energy won’t load near the real max. At least anyone with brains.
TXGunNut said
One point touched on that I’d be remiss if I didn’t emphasize is the necessity of loading manuals. I know there are experienced reloaders that never use them, I wish them good luck and a speedy recovery. I have a dozen or more, I’ve read them all. Last one is probably 100 years old and contained information I wish I’d known decades ago! All have good safety tips and suggestions. I very seldom reveal my load specifics online and I am not a fan of websites that provide load data. IMHO, and I may be showing my age, a beginning loader needs to read a major reloading manual before he decides to reload. The best ones are much more than load charts. If one decides to reload I recommend reading a second manual as they get started. Personally I consult four or five when I’m contemplating a new load. They discuss some of the systems described above, I use several depending on the cartridge and load but I select a system that best addresses the situation and I stick with it. Often the equipment available affects the system used. I’ve bulged a heavy Douglas barrel with a squib load but that sometimes happens with factory loads. To date I’ve only had one gun go from together to apart but that was no fault of the ammo-and that was a factory load. I learned the value of a reference library long before I started collecting Winchesters, nice thing is most reloading manuals are quite inexpensive as they are often sold by the same folks who make loading components or tools.
Mike
Mike – as I had mentioned I too, am a fan of loading manuals and I do exactly what you do when loading a new cartridge, I will look at three to four manuals. Another point I can mention is the data has changed over time. The data in the loading manuals I bought 40 years is often hotter than the data in current manuals. I hear that is the influence of the lawyers. I don’t hotrod anyway, so I always start out cautiously.
I have toyed with the the proposition of casting my own bullets over the years. I’ve shied away from it. Mainly because I haven’t wanted to add that much sheer poundage to my life. Knowing me, I’d have 50 molds in short order. Plus furnace, ingots of lead, bullet sizing dies and on and on. I shoot a lot of lead bullets and have been pleased to with the bullets I’ve been able to obtain from small bullet casters. The options are very strong. For example, if you want to shoot lead bullets in .44-40, there are bullet casters that offer them from .426 to .438. You sure won’t find that with factory ammo. I’ve also been pleased with both the quality control and the prices. Often you can specify the hardness you want, lube choices and gas checks as options as well. When I receive a box off 100 (or 500) completed bullets that have been sized, lubed, quality-controlled checked … I think about how long it would take for me to accomplish all of that … and feel like I’m getting a bargain.
I know like handloading, bullet casting can be interesting and fun. Many here enjoy using antique molds and find that nostalgic and gratifying. Several years ago, I had a huge pang of temptation. Many members here will remember a former member and very fine gentleman – John Kort (30 WCF). I can’t begin to describe all the topics that John had vast knowledge of. He was a prolific bullet caster and I can’t think of anyone who knew more about bullet casting than he did. Sadly, John died of cancer and during his final months of life, he was wanting to dispose of his entire mold collection. We are talking many many decades of accumulation. I don’t recall the exact price but I do recall it was quite reasonable. I was very tempted.
steve004 said
Mike – as I had mentioned I too, am a fan of loading manuals and I do exactly what you do when loading a new cartridge, I will look at three to four manuals. Another point I can mention is the data has changed over time. The data in the loading manuals I bought 40 years is often hotter than the data in current manuals. I hear that is the influence of the lawyers. I don’t hotrod anyway, so I always start out cautiously.
Lawyers and better powder is the result of load changes. I started with loading manuals put out prior to WW II. Many had loads for the Winchester calibers. I bought a chronograph before I ever started loading. I found the new powders of the same exact number and manufacturer were hotter than the older version.
If someone doesn’t have a chronograph you’d better be safe.
A “Maximum” load, in a perfect World, would be one that delivered the highest velocity from a cartridge made with a new, properly sized brass case, in a particular serial-numbered firearm, with maximum chamber pressure not exceeding the limit over which, if such loads were repeatedly fired, [A] a SAAMI qualified NOGO headspace gauge would eventually close in the action; OR [B] the same case, reloaded repeatedly, would show signs of incipient head separation; whichever of A and B is the first to occur.
We know it’s not a perfect World: Even factory rifles of the same make, model, and caliber, vary in chamber dimensions. Different rifles of the same caliber can have barrels with different rates of twist. Canister powders vary in burn rate and pressure curve from batch to batch. Primers of different make vary in brisance. Bullets of the same caliber and weight can have varying amounts of bearing surface. Rough or pitted barrels can exhibit different pressure curves with the identical load. Fired cartridge cases do not always exhibit signs of “excessive” pressures until they rupture. One rifle’s hot-safe load may damage another rifle.
I had an early, memorable experience with a favorite Ruger 77RSI .250-3000 Savage. It was a long time ago when I was even more ignorant than today. A popular published load for a Speer Hot-Cor 100 grain spitzer soft point was a certain quantity of Olin 760 ball powder. I loaded a small series, starting 10% below the recommended quantity and working up a half-grain at a time. I did not own a chronograph but, after the first shot, I didn’t need one. The recoil in my little carbine was unusually sharp and I had hell’s own time getting the bolt open. The primer was flattened and extruded, too. Everything but a glowing skull and bones. Fortunately, I had sense enough not to proceed further, even though the powder charge was several grains below the published load.
From the time of that experience forward, I did a lot of studying scholarly (and not so much) articles about chamber pressures and reloading and concluded that the edge of the cliff is not always visible in reloading manuals, even the “lawyer-mandated” manuals of recent years.
One of the things many “Gopher Baroque” [credit the late Dean Grennell] handloaders who rail about lawyer-mandated manuals usually haven’t done is read the relevant case law, which is tedious and has long words they have trouble sounding out. Try explaining sometime to a senior corporate officer of a powder manufacturer why he should be bold and publish the razor’s edge number of grains … because the hundred million dollar verdict a California jury just laid on his competitor was merely because of “lawyer greed and stupid jurors”.
Most senior corporate officers who have authority to bless or make those decisions would like to retire in comfort. They would not like to be the subject of a derisive Forbes article after their company underwent a Chapter 11 Arrangement to lose the judgment, which, in order to do so, wiped the value of the stock of the pre-filing shareholders to ZERO. Including said officer’s stock and the stock of his (former) pals in the C-suite.
Is it any wonder such an officer is not closely concerned whether you hit the gopher with 1500 foot pounds instead of, say, 1550?
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
Zebulon said
A “Maximum” load, in a perfect World, would be one that delivered the highest velocity from a cartridge made with a new, properly sized brass case, in a particular serial-numbered firearm, with maximum chamber pressure not exceeding the limit over which, if such loads were repeatedly fired, [A] a SAAMI qualified NOGO headspace gauge would eventually close in the action; OR [B] the same case, reloaded repeatedly, would show signs of incipient head separation; whichever of A and B is the first to occur.We know it’s not a perfect World: Even factory rifles of the same make, model, and caliber, vary in chamber dimensions. Different rifles of the same caliber can have barrels with different rates of twist. Canister powders vary in burn rate and pressure curve from batch to batch. Primers of different make vary in brisance. Bullets of the same caliber and weight can have varying amounts of bearing surface. Rough or pitted barrels can exhibit different pressure curves with the identical load. Fired cartridge cases do not always exhibit signs of “excessive” pressures until they rupture. One rifle’s hot-safe load may damage another rifle.
I had an early, memorable experience with a favorite Ruger 77RSI .250-3000 Savage. It was a long time ago when I was even more ignorant than today. A popular published load for a Speer Hot-Cor 100 grain spitzer soft point was a certain quantity of Olin 760 ball powder. I loaded a small series, starting 10% below the recommended quantity and working up a half-grain at a time. I did not own a chronograph but, after the first shot, I didn’t need one. The recoil in my little carbine was unusually sharp and I had hell’s own time getting the bolt open. The primer was flattened and extruded, too. Everything but a glowing skull and bones. Fortunately, I had sense enough not to proceed further, even though the powder charge was several grains below the published load.
From the time of that experience forward, I did a lot of studying scholarly (and not so much) articles about chamber pressures and reloading and concluded that the edge of the cliff is not always visible in reloading manuals, even the “lawyer-mandated” manuals of recent years.
One of the things many “Gopher Baroque” [credit the late Dean Grennell] handloaders who rail about lawyer-mandated manuals usually haven’t done is read the relevant case law, which is tedious and has long words they have trouble sounding out. Try explaining sometime to a senior corporate officer of a powder manufacturer why he should be bold and publish the razor’s edge number of grains … because the hundred million dollar verdict a California jury just laid on his competitor was merely because of “lawyer greed and stupid jurors”.
Most senior corporate officers who have authority to bless or make those decisions would like to retire in comfort. They would not like to be the subject of a derisive Forbes article after their company underwent a Chapter 11 Arrangement to lose the judgment, which, in order to do so, wiped the value of the stock of the pre-filing shareholders to ZERO. Including said officer’s stock and the stock of his (former) pals in the C-suite.
Is it any wonder such an officer is not closely concerned whether you hit the gopher with 1500 foot pounds instead of, say, 1550?
So, what you are essentially telling us is that Adm. David Farragut’s axiom “Damm the Torpedoes, Full speed ahead” is not the right approach as it applies to reloading?
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
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