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Model 1885 Winder (87)? 22 Short
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August 14, 2024 - 11:14 am
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Thanks for the input guys.  I was heart broken when I removed it from the “safe” as well.  My mother in law’s late husband had 2 of those “safes” that damaged about 12 different rifles (including a Winchester 1890 in 22WRF).  Rust looks a little worse in the picture than it does in person but it is a little more than just surface.  I can’t get it off without damaging surrounding bluing.  It does feel like its above the metal surface but I don’t know how deep it really goes.

I actually have about 10 other Winchesters (Models 43, 47, 61, 63, 75, 490, 1890, 69A, 72 and 9422M XTR).  Not all of them were in those “safes” but unfortunately a good number were.  I’ll likely post about a few others to make sure I understand there value a little better.

I am going to consign the guns with a gun shop in Asheville, NC before I list anything online. But if any of them do hit an auction site, I’ll be sure to update this post.

Thanks again,

Shane

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August 14, 2024 - 11:30 am
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I am going to consign the guns with a gun shop in Asheville, NC before I list anything online. Shane G said

  

“Heartbroken” would be my reaction, too, on seeing this wholly avoidable damage.  Consignment is best thing you can do under the circumstances, I think.  Customer’s can see damage for themselves before deciding to buy. 

Were safes built in China?

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August 14, 2024 - 3:35 pm
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Shane G said
Thanks for the input guys.  I was heart broken when I removed it from the “safe” as well.  My mother in law’s late husband had 2 of those “safes” that damaged about 12 different rifles (including a Winchester 1890 in 22WRF).  Rust looks a little worse in the picture than it does in person but it is a little more than just surface.  I can’t get it off without damaging surrounding bluing.  It does feel like its above the metal surface but I don’t know how deep it really goes.

I actually have about 10 other Winchesters (Models 43, 47, 61, 63, 75, 490, 1890, 69A, 72 and 9422M XTR).  Not all of them were in those “safes” but unfortunately a good number were.  I’ll likely post about a few others to make sure I understand there value a little better.

I am going to consign the guns with a gun shop in Asheville, NC before I list anything online. But if any of them do hit an auction site, I’ll be sure to update this post.

Thanks again,

Shane

  

I would like to get the details for the Model 43.  I just finished writing a detailed article (for publication in the WACA Collector magazine later this year) discussing the Model 43 rifles.

Bert

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August 14, 2024 - 5:18 pm
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The craters of rust as my old mentor called them can be removed with patience but the pits underneath can’t be fixed.  Soak the craters with Breakfree CLP.  Soak a rag with CLP and wrap it around the area of rust.  Let it sit for a few weeks. Then pick away with a wooden or hard plastic stick.  Repeat soaking as necessary. Eventually you can pick them away. 

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August 14, 2024 - 5:59 pm
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Chuck said
The craters of rust as my old mentor called them can be removed with patience but the pits underneath can’t be fixed.  Soak the craters with Breakfree CLP.  Soak a rag with CLP and wrap it around the area of rust.  Let it sit for a few weeks. Then pick away with a wooden or hard plastic stick.  Repeat soaking as necessary. Eventually you can pick them away. 

  

It would be much faster to soak it in Kroil (a few hours is all that is needed), then use a copper or brass wool pad soaked in Kroil to scrub the rust/crud spots off of the steel.  The copper/brass wool will not damage any of the bluing that has not been damaged by the active rust.

Bert

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August 15, 2024 - 7:21 pm
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I should have said Volcanoes. Not craters.

Bert’s choice of rust remover works just fine.  Most do about the same. I have at least 5 different types of rust removers including Kroil, PB Blaster, LPS and WD 40.  Soaking is the key. 

I have used 0000 steal wool too.  What ever you do don’t get aggressive.  Not all 0000 steel wool is the same.  Hardware store stuff is rougher than what you can get from a woodworking supply store where it is designed to work on finishes. 

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August 15, 2024 - 9:08 pm
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Chuck said
I have used 0000 steal wool too.  What ever you do don’t get aggressive.  Not all 0000 steel wool is the same.  Hardware store stuff is rougher than what you can get from a woodworking supply store where it is designed to work on finishes.  

I was unaware of that diff.  However, if I’ve got to mail-order the better grade, with a $10 min shipping charge, I guess I’ll continue using the hardware variety.  What many rave about are those pads of stainless steel shavings, “guaranteed” not to cause blue loss, though they most certainly will if not used judiciously.  I forget the trade name, but while searching for it, I ran across this rolled form of steel wool I’ve not seen before, which would be much handier to use than the usual big pads.

911K0dnn9lL._SL1500_.jpgImage Enlarger

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August 16, 2024 - 3:12 am
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clarence said

Chuck said

I have used 0000 steal wool too.  What ever you do don’t get aggressive.  Not all 0000 steel wool is the same.  Hardware store stuff is rougher than what you can get from a woodworking supply store where it is designed to work on finishes.  

I was unaware of that diff.  However, if I’ve got to mail-order the better grade, with a $10 min shipping charge, I guess I’ll continue using the hardware variety.  What many rave about are those pads of stainless steel shavings, “guaranteed” not to cause blue loss, though they most certainly will if not used judiciously.  I forget the trade name, but while searching for it, I ran across this rolled form of steel wool I’ve not seen before, which would be much handier to use than the usual big pads.

911K0dnn9lL._SL1500_.jpgImage Enlarger

  

I like the roll but I generally just pinch off enough from a pad for the job at hand. Stainless pads don’t make sense to me; I won’t use stainless brushes on a blue steel gun so I’d have a hard time using a stainless pad on a blue gun. 

 

Mike

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August 16, 2024 - 6:46 am
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Mike,  I have some of the stainless “ribbon” pads and have used it a time or two on blued finishes with minor rusting.  It does as advertised and if done lightly, at least, removes minor rust without harming the blue at all.  Not even fine scratch lines in the blue.  I think the secret is the ribbon as the edges of the ribbon aren’t as harsh as steel wool with lots of cutting edges.  But I’ve no doubt anything can be used too harshly if you don’t watch it.  But like you, I won’t use a stainless bore brush.  Tim

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August 16, 2024 - 1:53 pm
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tim tomlinson said
Mike,  I have some of the stainless “ribbon” pads and have used it a time or two on blued finishes with minor rusting.  It does as advertised and if done lightly, at least, removes minor rust without harming the blue at all.  Not even fine scratch lines in the blue.  I think the secret is the ribbon as the edges of the ribbon aren’t as harsh as steel wool with lots of cutting edges.  But I’ve no doubt anything can be used too harshly if you don’t watch it.  But like you, I won’t use a stainless bore brush.  Tim 

Finally remembered trade name of these pads:  “Big 45.”  However, as far as I can tell, they’re no diff from similar pads sold as pot scrubbers!  I’ve used them for 50 yrs, & prefer them to wool, but even they need to be used gingerly, not like a pot scrubber!  I use only only a few strands pulled from the pad, not the whole pad.  Furthermore, whether damage is done to surrounding blue depends in large part on age & hardness of rust; when fresh & powdery, even a piece of rough canvas with oil may suffice to remove it without damage to blue, but the older & harder it is, the more force must be applied, & consequently, the greater the risk of damage.  It’s a useful product, but no “magic bullet.”

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