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Hi,
Tying to help my mother-in-law with her late husband’s collection. One of the rifles is what I believe is an 1885 Winder, caliber 22 Short. I don’t have a picture of the upper tang at this time. I inserted the pics I have below. I know absolutely nothing about these rifles other than what I’ve been able to piece together online. I believe the rifle is a 3rd model (maybe 87?). Not sure if it has US stamp or not because it didn’t know to look for it when I was with the rifle.
Interested in any info available and any estimates of value.
Thanks,
Shane
OK Shane what I see is a Winder Musket commonly known as an ’85 lo-wall musket, however Winchester did catalogue them as a mod. 1887 or as You said a 3rd mod. I bought a real nice one recently for $1500.00 Canadian. and I’ve seen lots in that price range. Good luck
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
Noticed the extra holes in the barrel that may bother some. How’s the bore?
Henry Mero said
Winchester did catalogue them as a mod. 1887
Actually, Henry, it was merely Model 87–& no one has ever been able to figure out where that no. came from or what it meant.
Bill Hanzel said
Noticed the extra holes in the barrel that may bother some. How’s the bore?
Guess those holes aren’t original huh?
I’m not with the gun and didn’t check the bores on the rifles. I’m going to take better overall pics and check bores the next time we visit.
Bill Hanzel said
Noticed the extra holes in the barrel that may bother some. How’s the bore?
It shouldn’t, much, considering the exceptional condition of the gun otherwise.
[email protected] said
Guess those holes aren’t original huh?
Probably not, though (since it’s not US issue) it’s conceivable one could have been special ordered that way, just no way to verify that, so most collectors will assume it was done afterwards. I think I can make out a faint outline of the mark left by a scope block–better to have left them in place.
clarence said
[email protected] said
Guess those holes aren’t original huh?
Probably not, though (since it’s not US issue)
Clarence,
I didn’t think the area where the US and “bomb” should be were depicted in my picture?
Do you think you should be able to see them in the pics I posted?
all the marked ones I have seen are all in the same general area, but I can’t say they were all done that way, but to answer your question – the marks aren’t visible in your current pictures
It is a Model “87” a.k.a. Third variation Winder Musket, and it was manufactured in 1919. The odds are very high that it is martially marked, but you will need to confirm it. The value is higher for the Martially marked Model Third variation Winder Muskets if all else is equal. The barrel has been drilled & tapped for scope blocks, which does negatively affect the value.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
I didn’t mean to confuse the issue” I should have said “commonly known as a low wall musket” not an ’85 low wall musket.
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
Bert H. said
It is a Model “87” a.k.a. Third variation Winder Musket, and it was manufactured in 1919. The odds are very high that it is martially marked, but you will need to confirm it. The value is higher for the Martially marked Model Third variation Winder Muskets if all else is equal. The barrel has been drilled & tapped for scope blocks, which does negatively affect the value.Bert
Bert, didn’t you say these were machined from a high wall?
Chuck said
Bert, didn’t you say these were machined from a high wall?
Yes, they were. The Third variation Winder Musket is a low-wall in appearance only. The receiver is threaded for a large shank barrel, whereas a true low-wall is threaded for a small shank barrel.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
Yes, they were. The Third variation Winder Musket is a low-wall in appearance only. The receiver is threaded for a large shank barrel, whereas a true low-wall is threaded for a small shank barrel.
Other differences too, such as the trigger plate, which I found out the hard way many yrs ago by buying a close-coupled trigger plate which I thought could be installed in a low-wall I was having rebuilt. Gunmith (who was a good one) couldn’t make it work, something about it being too thick & other differences, so had to use the original trigger.
I know I’m reviving an old post but I finally have this rifle in my possession. Preparing to sale and just wanted to make sure I know what I have and looking for a price range. I believe it to be a Third Variation Winder Musket.
I don’t have a bore scope but the gun shoots excellent. I was ringing 8″ steel at 100 yards with no adjustments. Guess it was sighted in for 100.
Negatives
Drilled and tapped for scope.
Gun is missing a screw near the US markings.
Rust pitting on top of barrel (approximately 1 1/2″ area) from sitting in a cheap safe with foam rests.
Am I correct in what I think I have and what would an acceptable price range be?
I can’t figure out how to get the pictures to display but if you click the links, they should appear.
Shane
Shane,
This is just my personal opinion… due to the extra (non-factory original) holes drilled & tapped in the barrel, and the active rust formation on the barrel, the market value of your Model 87 Winder Musket has been reduced by 50%. I suspect that it will be difficult to find a buyer if the asking price is > $800.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
I like the gun better for having scope block holes (providing an excuse to mount a Win scope), but if that pitting is as bad as it looks, I couldn’t live with it even for $800. I suspect it was more than condensation that caused such damage–the plastic foam may be acidic. What a shame, when the gun is otherwise is such nice cond!
November 7, 2015
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Shane-
While your Winder Musket does have the detractions noted above it is IMHO an attractive and enjoyable rifle. While those detractions do limit your target market I think you’ll find an enthusiastic buyer if marketed correctly.
Mike
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