GB needs to tighten up its membership verification process and quit leaving it up.to computer software to smoke out the bad guys.
If I were king of all I surveyed (like Yertle the turtle) I’d not let anybody sell squat until he, she, or it was a Verified Member, meaning a real.person with a proven government ID face and real address, and some debit or credit card accounts in existence for more than a year. Then a program to pjysically spot check every so many applications.
I’m not smart enough to do it but there are ponytailed creatives who could write for GB an automated program to scan the population of active auctions against a database of funny/suspicious qualifiers and spit out a daily list of auctions scoring above a certain number of “Fagins” for a live human to review. That human could choose to further investigate the really radioactive ones. The program could be self- learning, given sufficient processing power.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
Zebulon said
GB needs to tighten up its membership verification process and quit leaving it up.to computer software to smoke out the bad guys.If I were king of all I surveyed (like Yertle the turtle) I’d not let anybody sell squat until he, she, or it was a Verified Member, meaning a real.person with a proven government ID face and real address, and some debit or credit card accounts in existence for more than a year. Then a program to pjysically spot check every so many applications.
I’m not smart enough to do it but there are ponytailed creatives who could write for GB an automated program to scan the population of active auctions against a database of funny/suspicious qualifiers and spit out a daily list of auctions scoring above a certain number of “Fagins” for a live human to review. That human could choose to further investigate the really radioactive ones. The program could be self- learning, given sufficient processing power.
Bill, all those avenues, and more, even more sophisticated scam filtering software is available to GB if they elected to utilize it. They are either lazy and complacent (surely there is some of this), or downright willing to look the other way when fraudulent practices occur. I suspect a little of the former and a lot of the latter.
Several years ago, I reported some fraudulent claims being made by the seller of some firearms I knew of first hand. My ‘objections’ were never acted upon as far as I could tell, and I never got a response of any sort from GB.
I bought a lot of guns through GB over the years, and was always careful. I never got ‘scammed’ but probably because I was leery and did not become involved in anything which appeared shady or ‘too good to be true’. I believe the incidence of fraud has increased in recent years, and its been several years since I completed a purchase there.
Paul
Nevada Paul
Life Member NRA
Nevada Paul said
Bill, all those avenues, and more, even more sophisticated scam filtering software is available to GB if they elected to utilize it. They are either lazy and complacent (surely there is some of this), or downright willing to look the other way when fraudulent practices occur. I suspect a little of the former and a lot of the latter.
Several years ago, I reported some fraudulent claims being made by the seller of some firearms I knew of first hand. My ‘objections’ were never acted upon as far as I could tell, and I never got a response of any sort from GB.
I bought a lot of guns through GB over the years, and was always careful. I never got ‘scammed’ but probably because I was leery and did not become involved in anything which appeared shady or ‘too good to be true’. I believe the incidence of fraud has increased in recent years, and its been several years since I completed a purchase there.
Paul
Paul, I agree with you. The situation has gotten worse over time.
I’ve sold several guns on GB over the years and never been burned – that is, nobody’s ever asked me to ship before I’d gotten money in hand, although I’ve become much more reluctant to take payment instruments other than USPS money orders, which are difficult and unwise to forge- it stimulates unwanted attention from the Famous But Incompetent. The worst that’s happened is having some flake bid the item in and then fail to follow through – my beef with GB in that respect is there’s no way to block the initial bid of an NR bidder, who avoids the blocking mechanism by overbidding the moon first bid. GB’s blocking software auto-bids him right on up in the face of a blocking request because it considers the autobid as part of the initial, unblocked bid. Worse, GB is most reluctant to throw the flakes out the door until they’ve accumulated several F ratings. I suppose if you are in the business as an FFL that’s just part of the cost but for some poor soul trying to liquidate Granddad’s Model 97, it’s a PITA.
Years ago I bought a couple of things at Auction Arms, which has since been renamed. I went back to them last year and knocked down something I’d always wanted, a 20 gauge [nameless brand shotgun that rhymes with “Superposed”], at a good price. I don’t know AA has as much action as GB and that can work in a buyer’s favor. In that particular case, I’d made a long and careful study of the salt curing issue; read, looked and listened as much as I could before shopping. This particular 20 gauge was a long tang flat knob with a ’72 DOM. The long tang was restarted in ’71, supposedly after the company woke up and burned its entire salt inventory; and the pix showed me the wood was fairly straight grain Euro Walnut, not Claro. Still, the problem has cast a shadow for production from late ’66 to ’71 …. some say ’72, so I saved a grand on the price. A little Silver nitrate confirmed the wood wasn’t salt cured. That’s about as much of a chance as I’ve ever taken.
All the Winchesters (and the B brand, admittedly) I’ve ever bought at online auctions have been righteous, which I suppose argues WRA collectors are closer to the Angels than the enthusiasts of — lesser brands. The worst beating I’ve ever taken so far was a Weatherby Mark V with a gorgeous Tiger tail Claro stock. Served me right, I suppose.
For serious stealin’, a fountain pen [keyboard?] leaves a pistol in the dirt.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
Guns dot com is not so much a dealer as it is a network of dealers. It serves as a sort of clearing house for its associated FFL licensees, who list their offerings under the guns.com umbrella, and also are also willing to serve as receiving FFL to anyone purchasing from guns.com. Then, for whatever their fee is (and a local FFL told me it is minimal) they take care of receiving and disbursing payments (electronically) coordinating FFL transfers (also electronically), and giving the actual seller the go-ahead to ship an item once payment & FFL issues have been satisfied. They show a physical address in Minnesota, but actual shipment of firearms can be from all over the USA among the actual possessors of the guns offered for sale. Such a system would obviously free up the actual seller of the firearm from the monotony and hassle of collecting payments and waiting for FFLs to arrive in a timely fashion, as guns.com handles that. It would also serve as a kind of legal liability shield for those selling firearms.
My personal experience with guns.com is limited to a single purchase. I bought a Winchester 52 Pre-A Sporting rifle that was listed on GI (for an obscenely low price) and the rifle actually shipped here to Big Sky Country from a dealer in the Philadelphia suburbs. Payment was by credit card only, with immediate payment required. Receiving FFL was chosen by me from a list of FFLs in my city who were guns.com affiliates. I found out who was really selling the rifle by asking my receiving FFL if I could see the FFL of the sender. once the rifle arrived Looking up that dealer on google, I saw it was a shop that had miles and miles of ARs, AKs and similar wares that appeal to the matte black and plastic crowd, but which hold no appeal for me. I suspect the seller didn’t know what the rifle was, and didn’t much care, as it wasn’t a semi-auto with a 30 round magazine.
So that’s what I learned about guns.com. It’s a bit like the drop ship dealers on Amazon’s marketplace. Not so much a single entity as a matchmaking service bringing buyers and sellers together under a larger and perhaps better known entity. I suspect there could be real problems with such a system if the buyer is not satisfied, but that was not my experience. None of the foregoing should be viewed as an endorsement of guns.com.
BRP
Guns dot com is not so much a dealer as it is a network of dealers. Blue Ridge Parson said
Larry’s experience illustrates how this arrangement can be a recipe for trouble…because the purported seller, guns.com, isn’t really the owner or seller of the advertised item. Guns.com has no real control over the actual seller, beyond the power of persuasion, & a bad-egg seller thrown off Guns.com has plenty of other venues for selling, which isn’t the case with Amazon sellers. I never buy anything on Amazon unless it’s impossible to find the item elsewhere, preferably ebay, which has a much more efficient return procedure.
Big Larry said
Blue Ridge Parson said
Clarence,
Here is the link:
BRP
GUNS DOT? They have to be the worst of the worst. I bought a pre M28 from them and I will never deal with them again. Big Larry
I notice they have 9 pages of guns listed on GI. Good to know they’re an outfit to avoid. Of course, that applies to many out there. A great many.
November 7, 2015

I’ve only bought one gun online and that was from an out of state Cabela’s. I generally consider the online auction sites education or entertainment, often both. I make enough buying mistakes when I can handle the gun and am dealing with an honest (but sometimes ill informed) seller, I wouldn’t have much chance with an educated shyster. I hope the GB “winner” wasn’t a loser.
Mike
In earlier days it was possible for the seller to close a GB auction early even if it had drawn a bid. That hasn’t been true for a long while. Once a single bid is placed, the seller has no power to end it. (I’m not sure about the case of an insufficient bid where there’s a reserve.)
Because the fraudulent 75 Sporting closed prematurely, we can safely conclude GB management intervened and closed the auction. Most likely because somebody dropped a dime on the seller.
The SOLD banner was likely just auto generated by the auction software and I’d be surprised if GB didn’t warn the bidder he was even luckier than he’d thought.
Perhaps Guns International uses some of the software Paul describes, constantly looking for matching images across the Web, and it was GI’s security that dropped the dime.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
Tangentially, this is why when someone asks for advice on where to sell their firearms, the high hammer prices often derived on a site like gunbroker are references. Particularly when an auction is started at a penny with no reserve. Maybe the prospective seller sees a Winchester nearly identical to what they have and note the very high final bid a seller like Chayn’s or Austinsguns receive for it. So, they register on gunbroker as a new seller. But they are a new seller and have no feedback. They don’t realize that a whole lot of bidders are going to avoid their auction like the plague. I certainly would. Way too many unknowns. Everything from it being a total scam to the person has no experience packing a gun, they’ve hidden an important detail, they are a procrastinator and on and on.
Like Mike, I’ve stayed away from internet buying for many years. But that is not to say there are not some honorable and knowledgeable sellers. They are a small number, but Chayn’s or Austinguns are examples of internet sellers I would buy from without the slightest hesitation.
In earlier days it was possible for the seller to close a GB auction early even if it had drawn a bid. That hasn’t been true for a long while. Once a single bid is placed, the seller has no power to end it. Zebulon said
Many sellers with storefronts will say item is subject to on-site sale, whether doing so violates GB policy or not; if they do, retribution from GB isn’t likely.
When a “BIN” price is listed on ebay, one bid under that amt cancels the BIN; I think there are spoilers who place low bids deliberately for that purpose.
Tangentially, this is why when someone asks for advice on where to sell their firearms, the high hammer prices often derived on a site like gunbroker are references. Particularly when an auction is started at a penny with no reserve. steve004 said
When I’ve recommended checking GB “sold” prices for value estimates, it’s always with the proviso that such prices are usually much higher than gun show or gun store prices. I can’t grasp the appeal of these “penny auctions,” although it’s obvious the morons who place absurdly low bids find doing so highly entertaining. On ebay, I never bid before the last 5 min or so of the end, because doing so “shows your hand,” & gives other bidders time to revise their own high bids. Doesn’t work as well on GB with that hateful & malicious “15 min rule.”
TXGunNut said
I’ve only bought one gun online and that was from an out of state Cabela’s. I generally consider the online auction sites education or entertainment, often both. I make enough buying mistakes when I can handle the gun and am dealing with an honest (but sometimes ill informed) seller, I wouldn’t have much chance with an educated shyster. I hope the GB “winner” wasn’t a loser.
Mike
Mike, I can’t disagree with your sentiment. But I have to say that I’ve bought guns through Gunbroker, Guns International, Auction Arms, and Cabela’s through their on line purchase site. Probably over 50 in all over many years. As I stated earlier, my last gun purchase on an auction site was many years ago, as I’ve seen instances of fraud increase.
But I also have to say that I never experienced a fraudulent exchange, nor was I ever the victim of ‘false advertising’ where the gun was much different than what I expected. I’m hardly as knowledgeable as most of the folks on this forum, so I probably have been lucky. ( I know that I was lucky, because at one point I panicked over some barrel stampings on a couple of 92’s until Twobit confirmed that they were correct.) But I also asked lots of questions, requested additional photos, then backed away if I felt the least bit uneasy over what I saw or heard.
And yes, the seller’s rating and history is a big part of trust and confidence.
Through the years I was buying all those guns from auction sites, I was working and had very little opportunity to frequent big gun shows. Considering my location in rural Nevada, that is still the case, even in retirement. I’m a 4 hours drive from Reno and 9 hours from Las Vegas. Cody is a 7 day adventure. So the auction sites were a crucial avenue for me to find many of my collectibles.
The point of all this is that I wish there was some way to force the sites to better police their own policies and weed out the bad players.
Paul
Nevada Paul
Life Member NRA
Well, on GB I’m not sure lower bids cancel the BIN offer, at least where the placed bids are below a reserve.
Some years ago a Pacific Northwest dealer had taken in on trade a well-kept .350 Magnum Remington 600M carbine, put it up on GB at a low start and an unknown reserve, but with a $950 BIN, which was a very reasonable retail for one in that condition at the time.
There were at least 9 or 10 bidders messing around, placing low ball bids below the reserve and closing time was half an hour away. I looked at it, noted in the description that a BIN buyer got free shipping. Well, Hell’s bells!
Just as the boys were getting ready to bid, their index fingers poised over the CONFIRM BID key, the green SOLD banner popped up!! Now you see it, now you don’t.
I’ve been offered $1600 and better since but I like the little blaster and will pass it down. Part of the fun has been imagining the dropped jaws and colorful language.
We won’t talk about those auctions where the “Mine is bigger than yours” hormone kicked in and I bought hamburger for a ribeye price.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
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