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Not a Winchester but interesting nonetheless
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November 19, 2022 - 10:32 pm
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clarence said

Sure, haven’t you seen that famous photo of him posing with his super-deluxe ’76, dressed in a massive overcoat?  It’s almost as tall as he is.  You can probably find it with an internet search.

  

Searching “Theodore Roosevelt hunting photos,” I found 3 (among hundreds of others) all taken at the same time in different poses showing clearly his engraved button-mag ’76, probably the fanciest Winchester he ever ordered.  These were not the image I was thinking of, however, which show him in what I think is a buffalo-robe coat during winter on his ranch in the Badlands.

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November 19, 2022 - 10:48 pm
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I recall reading the very exciting Roosevelt tale – River of Doubt. What an amazingly and unexpected arduous journey that Brazilian expedition was.  They nearly starved to death, contracted various illnesses and experienced great deprivation. Just enduring the strain of portaging those very heavy wooden boats/canoes (for much longer distances than planned) was amazing.  I believe Roosevelt is thought to have never fully recovered from having nearly died on this expedition. .  Kermit had a tough time of it too.  I would highly recommend it for anyone.

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November 20, 2022 - 12:38 am
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clarence said

Just finished re-reading the first chapter of “Ranchman” and enjoyed a little bit of writing about his favorite Winchester of the time (1885), a repeater in 45-75. I think we can safely assume it was a Model 1876 even though I didn’t find where he mentioned the actual model.

TXGunNut said

  

Sure, haven’t you seen that famous photo of him posing with his super-deluxe ’76, dressed in a massive overcoat?  It’s almost as tall as he is.  You can probably find it with an internet search.

Considering everything else he was occupied with during his busy lifetime, not least the time he lavished on his children, his literary output was mind-boggling.  Somewhere I read that he wrote quickly, seldom making revisions; that’s done, what’s next? 

  

As a matter of fact there is a famous photo of a young TR in buckskins holding what appears to be an 1876 and a dagger stuffed in his cartridge belt in the 1909 book I mentioned above. The other photo sounds familiar but I may be confusing it with this one. 

 

Mike

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November 20, 2022 - 1:57 am
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TXGunNut said
As a matter of fact there is a famous photo of a young TR in buckskins holding what appears to be an 1876 and a dagger stuffed in his cartridge belt in the 1909 book I mentioned above. The other photo sounds familiar but I may be confusing it with this one. 
 

  

Yes, that’s the one (in 3 different poses) I found on-line.  The dagger is that famous one with the silver hilt made by Tiffany, photos of which are also on-line.  All this fancy gear he had made up for his first trip West.

I finally found the photo I remembered, or rather mis-remembered, because it’s not his ’76 he’s holding, but an equally fancy half-mag Bullard.  And the man in the huge overcoat isn’t him but a guide he’d known in Maine who went with him to ND.  TR’s coat is equally heavy, but only half-length, but he’s wearing heavy chaps.  This photo was taken shortly after TR & his two ranch-hands captured 3 thieves near his ranch.  Search “theodore roosevelt boat thieves” for photos of this escapade.  If Steve doesn’t have a copy of this photo, it ought to look for one. 

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November 20, 2022 - 4:46 am
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Didn’t TR have a M1886 Deluxe in .45-90 with half round, half octagon barrel with a button Mag?

I had an ’86 like that except not a Deluxe.  Had about 6 boxes of Win. .45-90 ammo too.

Sadly, they’re gone.

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November 22, 2022 - 11:02 pm
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I found some information about TR's weapons on the SS Hamburg that might be of interest:

 

MS20.23.08.079.jpgImage Enlarger0425.jpgImage Enlarger0450.jpgImage EnlargerMS20.23.08.090.jpgImage Enlarger0509.jpgImage EnlargerMS20.23.08.094.003.jpgImage EnlargerMS20.23.08.096.jpgImage Enlarger

 

 

Greetings from Germany

 

Stefan

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November 22, 2022 - 11:24 pm
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Here’s a little more

 

MS20.23.08.074.001.jpgImage EnlargerMS20.23.08.074.002.jpgImage EnlargerMS20.23.08.072.jpgImage EnlargerMS20.23.08.073.jpgImage EnlargerMS20.23.08.081.jpgImage EnlargerMS20.23.08.082.001.jpgImage EnlargerMS20.23.08.082.002.jpgImage EnlargerMS20.23.08.085.jpgImage Enlarger0637.jpgImage EnlargerMS20.23.08.071.jpgImage EnlargerMS20.23.08.099.jpgImage Enlarger

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November 22, 2022 - 11:30 pm
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One more letter and that’s it. I promise it 😉

 

0730.jpgImage Enlarger0731.jpgImage Enlarger0732.jpgImage Enlarger

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November 23, 2022 - 1:05 am
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steff said
One more letter and that’s it. I promise it 😉

This letter is the most detailed commentary on his guns that I’ve seen in one place.  I wonder if the .45-70 reference could be to that ’86 with his initials engraved on the rcvr. that was put up for sale about a yr ago; there was considerable skepticism that the gun was really his, but possibly it’s the very gun he’s talking about in this letter.  His belief that his .405 would suffice for most purposes turned out to be correct, as I think the only times he used his double was for elephant & rhino.  That scoped Mannlicher is one I don’t remember hearing about before.

Very interesting the comments about Taft, whom TR had placed great confidence in, but who turned out to be a weakling who caved in to political pressure during TR’s absence.

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November 24, 2022 - 2:20 pm
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Has anyone ever seen such an “Illuminated sight” with a lamp and a dry battery?

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November 24, 2022 - 2:52 pm
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steff said
Has anyone ever seen such an “Illuminated sight” with a lamp and a dry battery?

  

It seems to me I brought this topic up several years ago – in reference to reading a description of a Roosevelt rifle so equipped.  I don’t recall anyone digging an example out of their safe and posting a photo.

Steff – the letters and correspondence you posted are wonderful.  What a treasure!  Don’t apologize for posting!  And if you have any more, I’d love to see them.

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November 24, 2022 - 3:02 pm
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steff said
Has anyone ever seen such an “Illuminated sight” with a lamp and a dry battery?

  

Yes–one was developed at Springfield Armory, which TR could have had knowledge of.  Though that would not seem so useful as the scoped Mannlicher, which isn’t mentioned in African Game Trails.  I wonder if it was damaged during the long sea voyage.

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November 24, 2022 - 5:36 pm
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Fascinating, Steff. Thanks for sharing those letters with us. Amazing how fast the mail apparently moved in those days.

 

Mike

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November 24, 2022 - 6:19 pm
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In one of the letters, Winchester is directed to send 1000 rounds of ammunition for the, “little Marlin rifle”.  What rifle was that? I’ve never heard of such a rifle associated with his expedition.

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November 24, 2022 - 7:18 pm
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TXGunNut said
 Amazing how fast the mail apparently moved in those days.

In larger cities at least there were commonly TWO posts a day in the 19th & early 20th C.  Probably the telephone had a lot to do with ending this service.

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November 25, 2022 - 8:27 am
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clarence said
I wonder if the .45-70 reference could be to that ’86 with his initials engraved on the rcvr. that was put up for sale about a yr ago; there was considerable skepticism that the gun was really his, but possibly it’s the very gun he’s talking about in this letter.

  

 

This 1907 documents lists the serial number 125422 for TR’s 45-70.

 

MS20.23.06.06.002b-1.jpgImage Enlarger MS20.23.08.003.002.jpgImage Enlarger

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November 25, 2022 - 8:47 am
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Here is another letter mentioning a M1886 in 45-90, serial number 9205 and a .30 M1894, serial number 15659 owned by TR.

 

0844.jpgImage Enlarger0845.jpgImage Enlarger

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November 25, 2022 - 1:20 pm
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Steff – very fascinating.  It is interesting that he sure seems to have used those two rifles plenty hard (I doubt they were used when he purchased them).  And, it also sounds like some regular bore cleaning got missed. 

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November 25, 2022 - 2:56 pm
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steff said

This 1907 documents lists the serial number 125422 for TR’s 45-70. 

I’ve tried in vain to find the thread pertaining to the ’86 with TR’s monogram, which had been listed in some upcoming auction about a yr ago; anyone else care to give it a try?

TR’s continuing interest in a rifle & cartridge that clearly had been superseded by the Model 1895 seems surprising.  It could be explained if there was something about the ’95 action that he found objectionable, but on the contrary, it appears he very much admired it.  Kermit, by the way, used another ’95 in Africa, but in .30-06.

Steff, where did you find these letters?  Are they on-line somewhere?

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November 25, 2022 - 7:45 pm
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steff said
Has anyone ever seen such an “Illuminated sight” with a lamp and a dry battery?

  

I started a topic about this five years ago:

https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/question-about-teddy-roosevelts-winchester-m1895-with-electric-lighted-sights/

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