Avatar
Please consider registering
Guest
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Register Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
Not a Winchester but interesting nonetheless
sp_NewTopic Add Topic
Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 310
Member Since:
September 11, 2008
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
November 10, 2022 - 1:09 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

An exceptional find from the 1909 Smithsonian Africa Expedition.

 

20221110_135059.jpgImage Enlarger20221110_135114.jpgImage Enlarger20221110_135127.jpgImage Enlarger20221110_135147.jpgImage Enlarger20221110_135202.jpgImage Enlarger20221110_135214.jpgImage Enlarger

 

 

I love the stories about the safari with Teddy and am very happy to have got hold of this original piece.

 

Greetings from Germany

 

Stefan

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 4526
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
November 10, 2022 - 2:18 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

I have a modest collection of TR memorabilia, prints, photos, nick-nacks (all of which were produced in vast numbers, such was his popularity), but nothing so unique as this.  Very nicely framed, too.  (Best thing I have is probably one of his book-plates.)  Looks like this dinner was given on his way to Africa, as the next port of call was in Italy, thence I’d guess to Suez.

Have you heard about the shocking, criminal, & utterly unbelievable fate of the greatest monument to TR ever constructed, other than Mt. Rushmore?  I mean the magnificent bronze statue that used to stand at the entrance to the American Museum of Natural History in NYC (which his father had been instrumental in establishing), removed to placate the Burn, Loot, & Murder mobs two yrs ago.  Only in Biden’s America could such a hateful crime be conceived & executed.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2863
Member Since:
March 20, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
November 10, 2022 - 7:02 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

clarence said
Have you heard about the shocking, criminal, & utterly unbelievable fate of the greatest monument to TR ever constructed, other than Mt. Rushmore?  I mean the magnificent bronze statue that used to stand at the entrance to the American Museum of Natural History in NYC (which his father had been instrumental in establishing), removed to placate the Burn, Loot, & Murder mobs two yrs ago.  Only in Biden’s America could such a hateful crime be conceived & executed.

  

Go and crawl back under a rock Clarence.  You are a disgrace to WACA and the collecting community

 

Micheal

Signature-Pic.jpg

 

Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 4526
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
November 10, 2022 - 9:02 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

twobit said

Go and crawl back under a rock Clarence.  You are a disgrace to WACA and the collecting community

 

Micheal

  

 

Please identify any part of my statement that’s untrue.  I know scores of folks in the collecting community, not ONE of whom would take issue with any word I said.  On the other hand, I have to admit they may be prejudiced–not one Biden supporter among them.  But I understand your sentiments…you must be feeling especially low after Beto’s defeat.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 310
Member Since:
September 11, 2008
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
November 10, 2022 - 9:11 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

We collectors in particular must be aware that the world is constantly changing. What was socially normal 100 years ago is rightly frowned upon today. We are always evolving, mostly for the better.

But please don’t hijack my topic with today’s politics.

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 4526
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
November 10, 2022 - 9:22 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

steff said
We collectors in particular must be aware that the world is constantly changing. What was socially normal 100 years ago is rightly frowned upon today. We are always evolving, mostly for the better.

But please don’t hijack my topic with today’s politics.

  

Your topic was TR memorabilia, one of the most magnificent examples of which was vandalized by a rampaging mob, then removed altogether.   That fact isn’t relevant?  Or do you agree (as it appears you do) that it was “mostly for the better” to “evolve” it out of the place of honor it had occupied for nearly a century?

Avatar
Troutdale, OR
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1394
Member Since:
June 26, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
November 10, 2022 - 10:05 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

steff said
An exceptional find from the 1909 Smithsonian Africa Expedition.

 

20221110_135059.jpgImage Enlarger20221110_135114.jpgImage Enlarger20221110_135127.jpgImage Enlarger20221110_135147.jpgImage Enlarger20221110_135202.jpgImage Enlarger20221110_135214.jpgImage Enlarger

 

I love the stories about the safari with Teddy and am very happy to have got hold of this original piece.

 

Greetings from Germany

 

Stefan

  

Back to the main topic… Very cool piece of history–congrats on a great find! Teddy Roosevelt ranks as one of the finest U.S. presidents in my opinion.  He was a true sportsman with like-minded values.  Sadly not a trait held by most of today’s politicians.  If someone invents a time machine, I would be first in line and never come back!

Don

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 3648
Member Since:
March 31, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
8
November 10, 2022 - 10:09 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

steff said
We collectors in particular must be aware that the world is constantly changing. What was socially normal 100 years ago is rightly frowned upon today. We are always evolving, mostly for the better.

But please don’t hijack my topic with today’s politics.

  

Sorry Steff.

Post deleted.

You are right Bert.  I apologize.  Not for what I said but for putting it on here.

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 4526
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
9
November 10, 2022 - 11:14 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

deerhunter said

Teddy Roosevelt ranks as one of the finest U.S. presidents in my opinion.  

First President to invite a black man to the White House (Booker T. Washington), who always wrote respectfully about his African guides & trackers, & whose “big stick” metaphor was adopted (as he always acknowledged) from an African proverb. 

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 12913
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10
November 11, 2022 - 12:08 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Gentlemen;

Just as a friendly reminder, No personal attacks are acceptable on the WACA forums.  Keep it friendly, and respect the written views of others whether you agree with them or not.

Bert – Admin

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Northwestern Ontario
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 310
Member Since:
December 14, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
11
November 14, 2022 - 3:59 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

clarence said

deerhunter said

Teddy Roosevelt ranks as one of the finest U.S. presidents in my opinion.  

First President to invite a black man to the White House (Booker T. Washington), who always wrote respectfully about his African guides & trackers, & whose “big stick” metaphor was adopted (as he always acknowledged) from an African proverb. 

  

I have a great deal of respect for T.R. and it is a shame that so many of the monuments and statues of respected historical figures have been destroyed or removed and hidden away. The same thing is happening in Canada and I guess in most western countries where a small minority of people seemingly are allowed to vandalize public property and rewrite history without objectively studying the times and the mores of society in which these people lived. By the standards of today they are judged not by the standards of the times. Changes come slowly and even in our own times what was considered acceptable is no longer tolerated, nor should it be but we can’t condemn our ancestors because they didn’t live by our standards of what is right while ignoring the good that they accomplished. Sorry for the rant.

I do believe that Abraham Lincoln met with Frederick Douglass on several occasions and Douglass was at Lincoln’s second inauguration and Lincoln shook his hand in the Capital rotundra but I don’t know of any president prior to Lincoln who did or if Douglass went to the White House. I recently read about him and about his relationship with Lincoln.

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 4526
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
12
November 14, 2022 - 6:20 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Dave K. said

I have a great deal of respect for T.R. and it is a shame that so many of the monuments and statues of respected historical figures have been destroyed or removed and hidden away. The same thing is happening in Canada and I guess in most western countries where a small minority of people seemingly are allowed to vandalize public property and rewrite history without objectively studying the times and the mores of society in which these people lived. By the standards of today they are judged not by the standards of the times. Changes come slowly and even in our own times what was considered acceptable is no longer tolerated, nor should it be but we can’t condemn our ancestors because they didn’t live by our standards of what is right while ignoring the good that they accomplished. Sorry for the rant.

  

Never apologize for speaking the plain truth; especially when you’ll NEVER hear it mentioned in the main-stream media.  “Allowed” is the operative term–in most cases the vandalism & destruction occurred not because the police were overwhelmed & unable to prevent it, but because liberal city mayors & other officials had ordered them not to interfere with the “rights” of the rioters to “express” themselves.  As for the arrant stupidity of applying contemporary standards to the past, there’s a name for that, but don’t expect to hear it on PBS, CBC, BBC, etc.:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presentism_(literary_and_historical_analysis)   

G. W. Carver was the first to visit the White House, a major news story at the time, & condemned by TR’s political enemies.

Avatar
New Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2
Member Since:
December 14, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
13
November 19, 2022 - 1:16 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Our forum is one of the greatest tools available for Winchester collectors and enthusiasts alike; available to both members and guests. We run this forum for the betterment of our club and the Winchester community.  With that being said, it is just that – a forum to discuss all things Winchester. It is not intended for, nor is it to be used for, an outlet for the expression of political beliefs, discussion of politics, or name calling. This behavior will not be tolerated, and misuse or violation of these rules will result in immediate and permanent removal from the forum.  We hope you will continue to enjoy the forum and thank you for your attention to this matter.

Vinny Martin

WACA President

Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 3976
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
14
November 19, 2022 - 3:02 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

I imagine TR would have been quite the firearms enthusiast if he wasn’t more interested in flora and fauna. He had an incredible eye for detail as evidenced by his writings. Maybe I need to finish reading his “Ranchman” book this weekend. 

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 4526
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
15
November 19, 2022 - 4:26 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

TXGunNut said
I imagine TR would have been quite the firearms enthusiast if he wasn’t more interested in flora and fauna. He had an incredible eye for detail as evidenced by his writings. Maybe I need to finish reading his “Ranchman” book this weekend. 

 

Mike

  

It’s true his interest in flora and fauna was a lifelong obsession (wrote the first published bird survey of the Adirondack Mts, my snowy abode, while still a Harvard freshman, & once corrected his friend John Burroughs, foremost bird authority of the time, on a point of bird identification), but that didn’t stop him from being “quite the firearms enthusiast.”  He was a vocal & lifelong proponent of Winchester rifles, but his personal “enthusiasm” is best demonstrated by his design of what can be considered the first modern bolt-action sporter to achieve wide popularity in this country, his custom 1903 Springfield built in 1904.  I’m not forgetting the Lee Sporter, but it died on the vine in this country, whereas TR’s prototype inspired the creation of tens of thousands of improved ’03 sporters, even one built by Winchester, the so-called “Sniper Rifle” of 1922, which in turn led to the Model 54. 

Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 3976
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
16
November 19, 2022 - 3:29 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Thanks, Clarence. Wasn’t aware of his work with the 1903. I knew he was familiar with Winchester rifles and have spent a few hours in Cody’s TR room but the few of his books I’ve read include only passing references to rifles. My copy of “Ranchman” includes his book “The Wilderness Hunter” and I have my great-great-grandfather’s 1909 copy of Miller’s “Hunting Big Game in the Wilds of Africa”. It seems I have my homework assignment!

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 3268
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
17
November 19, 2022 - 4:05 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

TXGunNut said
Thanks, Clarence. Wasn’t aware of his work with the 1903. I knew he was familiar with Winchester rifles and have spent a few hours in Cody’s TR room but the few of his books I’ve read include only passing references to rifles. My copy of “Ranchman” includes his book “The Wilderness Hunter” and I have my great-great-grandfather’s 1909 copy of Miller’s “Hunting Big Game in the Wilds of Africa”. It seems I have my homework assignment!

 

Mike

  

TR certainly liked his Winchesters, but he also liked his Bullard Wink

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 4526
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
18
November 19, 2022 - 5:43 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

TXGunNut said
Thanks, Clarence. Wasn’t aware of his work with the 1903. I knew he was familiar with Winchester rifles and have spent a few hours in Cody’s TR room but the few of his books I’ve read include only passing references to rifles.

  

I’m afraid “passing references” are the rule & not the exception in all his books.  I made a quick check of African Game Trails to see if it might contain more detail, but he describes his African battery in one sentence: his ’03, .405, & double-rifle.  (Whereas he devotes 6 pages to discussing the books he brought with him, his famous “Pigskin Library”!)  At another point he mentions that the ’03 was the lightest & handiest of his rifles, but confined its use to long range antelopes & such like.  (Although Hemingway repeatedly took on lions with his similar ’03.)  There are more brief comments of the kind scattered throughout this thick book, but nothing such as Whelen or Crossman might have written.  Nor would there have been time for more extended gun-talk, as every page of the book is filled with observations on the geography, native customs, & of course the flora & fauna, no bird too small to escape his notice.

Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 3976
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
19
November 19, 2022 - 6:24 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Just finished re-reading the first chapter of “Ranchman” and enjoyed a little bit of writing about his favorite Winchester of the time (1885), a repeater in 45-75. I think we can safely assume it was a Model 1876 even though I didn’t find where he mentioned the actual model. Apparently it wasn’t necessary. His shotguns were likely custom built by artisans back east and he barely mentioned his Bullard. Through a happy accident of losing my bookmark I elected to start over on this book and the first chapter provided an interesting historian’s perspective on the “settling” of the West. TR’s description of the Bad Lands is a work of art rivaling Remington and Russell.
According to Ambrose in his introduction TR wrote 42 books. Add to that the hundreds of articles and shorter works and it can be a little mind-boggling.

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 4526
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
20
November 19, 2022 - 7:53 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Just finished re-reading the first chapter of “Ranchman” and enjoyed a little bit of writing about his favorite Winchester of the time (1885), a repeater in 45-75. I think we can safely assume it was a Model 1876 even though I didn’t find where he mentioned the actual model.
TXGunNut said

  

Sure, haven’t you seen that famous photo of him posing with his super-deluxe ’76, dressed in a massive overcoat?  It’s almost as tall as he is.  You can probably find it with an internet search.

Considering everything else he was occupied with during his busy lifetime, not least the time he lavished on his children, his literary output was mind-boggling.  Somewhere I read that he wrote quickly, seldom making revisions; that’s done, what’s next? 

Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 628
Currently Online: Bill Hockett, tim tomlinson
Guest(s) 15
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
1873man: 5257
clarence: 4526
TXGunNut: 3976
Chuck: 3648
steve004: 3268
twobit: 2863
Maverick: 2036
JWA: 1841
Big Larry: 1802
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 16
Topics: 10609
Posts: 91790

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1465
Members: 11674
Moderators: 3
Admins: 3
Navigation