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My 1891 '86 in 45/70
August 25, 2013
4:04 pm
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Aylmer, Quebec, Canada
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That is one fine looking Model 86. So much case colors left, you don't often see that. Looks like CC still left on the buttplate too. Take care of that one!

Thanks for sharing.

Matt

August 25, 2013
5:32 pm
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Congrats, a real gem!

August 25, 2013
8:09 pm
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Amazing condition. I have one in identical configuration and caliber from 1890, but not anywhere near the condition yours is in. Thanks for those photos.

August 26, 2013
9:54 am
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I keep admiring your '86, mainly because it gives me a good idea of what mine (1890, 45-70 full octagon, full mag) looked like when it was new. I am wondering if you would mind taking a photo of the barrel/mag tube in the sunlight as well?

The reason I am asking, is that I have noticed several Model 1886's from around 1890 - 1895 where the blueing on the mag tube fades faster than the blueing on the barrel. Your rifle is in very high condition, so it may not show this effect yet, but I am curious nevertheless. I am interested to see how soon the slightly faster fading on the mag tube became visible. It looks to me that the mag tube is made of a different steel than the barrel around that period of time and may not have held the blueing as well as the barrel steel.

Here is a couple photos of mine, showing the more faded mag tube. The left side is not as noticeable as the right side.

[Image Can Not Be Found]

August 26, 2013
12:04 pm
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August 26, 2013
12:21 pm
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Wisconsin
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Have you had the stock off? How clean was it inside? Two things catch my eye, there is no age to the blue on the barrel and the wood finish is all open grain. From what I have seen its a Rogers gun.

Bob

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August 26, 2013
12:23 pm
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I bought it in pieces and had it put back together. It was missing the cartridge cutoff and two screws which leads me to believe it was apart for repair. The man who took it apart is gone now.

Who is Rogers?

August 26, 2013
12:34 pm
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Wisconsin
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Rogers Restorations in California but he is now out of business. He sometimes would mark his work on the right side of the tang but only rarely. I bought a second model 73 that walked into a local gun show and I liked the quality of the work I bought it. It had a new barrel, tube and wood on it.

Bob

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August 26, 2013
1:05 pm
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I did a search on here for who he is. I checked and there is no mark. This is one nice Winchester but would make sense if it was restored to 90%.

August 26, 2013
2:59 pm
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If you received the gun in parts, missing a cartridge cut-off and two screws, then that does suggest a re-do. There is no way a mint '86 would be needing to be taken apart for repairs. Still, that is a beaut of a job if it is a redo. Rogers Restorations was one of the best from what I have heard. What does the bore look like? If the rifle is original, that bore should be pristine, sharp and shiny.

August 26, 2013
3:06 pm
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Wisconsin
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Win38-55 said
If you received the gun in parts, missing a cartridge cut-off and two screws, then that does suggest a re-do. There is no way a mint '86 would be needing to be taken apart for repairs. Still, that is a beaut of a job if it is a redo. Rogers Restorations was one of the best from what I have heard. What does the bore look like? If the rifle is original, that bore should be pristine, sharp and shiny.

Rogers did make new barrels if the old one was too far gone. so you can't tell from the bore.

Bob

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August 26, 2013
3:29 pm
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That is true. The open grain did get my attention as well. Mine looks like it still has a lot of the original factory finish on the buttstock, with less on the fore stock, but there is no open grain on the buttstock where the finish has had very little wear.

August 26, 2013
3:39 pm
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I didn't want to spoil the mood early on but I kinda lean with 1873man on the condition. I suspect a redo also.

Sincerely,
Maverick

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August 26, 2013
4:15 pm
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Aylmer, Quebec, Canada
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I noticed the open grain too, but was thinking maybe someone just did a bit of work on the wood. I sure thought the CC on the receiver was right, they did a very good job with it. Much of the redone CC these days just doesn't look right. Still a fine looking rifle.

Matt

August 26, 2013
4:29 pm
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Wisconsin
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I know what your talking about with case colors these days. They are to dark, not enough light colors like yellows and reds. They can do a lot with case colors to tone them down after recasing to make them look more aged. Some guns I really have to look hard at to tell if the case is real or not. Its the blue that they can't age. I did see a gun that someone wiped something on it that gave it the reddish plume color when you shined a light on it but you could scrape it off with a fingernail.

Bob

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August 26, 2013
5:49 pm
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maverick said
I didn't want to spoil the mood early on but I kinda lean with 1873man on the condition. I suspect a redo also.

Sincerely,
Maverick

Oh, no spoiling here. The case is good looking for period to me. The give away would have been the lettering and lack of general "age" you would see even if it was stored in a closet.

Ryan

August 26, 2013
6:16 pm
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I'm a rank novice at this kind of stuff, but I thought this was a decent looking restoration by Rogers I noticed awhile back. Looks like it was a lot of work.
http://www.antiquearmsinc.com/winchester-1876-deluxe-rifle-rogers-restoration-case-colored-checkered-3x-wood-antique-pre-1898-guns.htm

Regards

Brad Dunbar

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August 26, 2013
7:19 pm
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I'll add a vote for Roger Kurtz work on the metal. I happen to own a high wall with documentation from his shop. This 86 looks very similar. I don't think the wood looks right though. The few Rogers guns I've seen have a very believable finish to the wood that looks original. All in all, if you have to have a restored gun in your safe, this is the guy you want to have done it. Passes for original most of the time.

~Gary~

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August 26, 2013
8:10 pm
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Here is what color case hardening should look like and there is no doubting its original finish.

rooseveltwin01x600.jpgImage Enlarger
rooseveltwin02x600.jpgImage Enlarger

Certainly the best case colors I have ever seen.

Sincerely,
Maverick

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