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'85 S.R.C.
June 11, 2020
8:36 pm
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Well I guess this is a rare bird, I just acquired with the ammo. I understand it is 1 of 5, according to the red book. Any others out there?20200611_162111.jpgImage Enlarger20200611_162133.jpgImage Enlarger20200611_162155.jpgImage Enlarger20200611_162244.jpgImage Enlarger20200611_162314.jpgImage Enlarger20200611_162334.jpgImage Enlarger20200611_162340.jpgImage Enlarger20200611_162354.jpgImage Enlarger

W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.

June 11, 2020
8:55 pm
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Handsome.  I'll bet that has seen some time in the hand.

June 11, 2020
9:46 pm
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Kingston, WA
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That is a "Lightweight Single Shot Carbine" as cataloged by Winchester.  They are most commonly found in the 44 WCF caliber, with a smaller number made in both 32 WCF (39) and 22 WCF (5)  In total, just (389) were made in all calibers.  A very substantial number of them were exported to Australia.  Of the (5) made in 22 WCF, two of them reside in the collection displayed at the CFM.

Bert

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June 11, 2020
10:05 pm
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Do you have to have an ATF clearance letter for that one?

Sincerely,

Maverick

June 11, 2020
11:08 pm
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There is no B.A.T.F. in Canada .I guess if I take it to the U. S. I would have to get an B.A.T.F. clearance for it., ain't gonna' happen. I don't know much about the '85's so thanks Bert for the info. How scarce is the ammo? Also I need for a Winder musket, the flat spring, external screw and square nut that attaches to the lower tang for the trigger I think. Where would I look to find one?

W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.

June 12, 2020
12:34 am
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Henry Mero said
There is no B.A.T.F. in Canada .I guess if I take it to the U. S. I would have to get an B.A.T.F. clearance for it., ain't gonna' happen. I don't know much about the '85's so thanks Bert for the info. How scarce is the ammo? Also I need for a Winder musket, the flat spring, external screw and square nut that attaches to the lower tang for the trigger I think. Where would I look to find one?  

Henry,

Why so specific on the Winder Musket?  Only the First variation was made with a flat-spring action, and not even all of them. Beginning in early 1908, Winchester rapidly transitioned from the flat-spring to the coil-spring  The Second and Third variation Winder Muskets were all coil-spring actions.

Bert

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June 12, 2020
11:00 am
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Only reason for the Winder musket is because I have one that is missing those pieces. So i'll re-phrase My request, where would I find the trigger flat spring, square nut and external screw on the lower tang for a Model 1885  P.S. My Winder musket is ser#126996 and is missing those pieces.

W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.

June 12, 2020
1:54 pm
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Henry Mero said
Only reason for the Winder musket is because I have one that is missing those pieces. So i'll re-phrase My request, where would I find the trigger flat spring, square nut and external screw on the lower tang for a Model 1885  P.S. My Winder musket is ser#126996 and is missing those pieces.  

Henry,

Your Winder Musket is not a First variation, nor does it have a flat-spring action.  Based on the serial number, it should be a Third variation (low-wall), but it could possible be a parts clean-up (late) production Second variation.  Can you send pictures of it to me via email? 

Bert

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June 12, 2020
2:28 pm
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Bert I'll get them on here shortly

W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.

June 12, 2020
3:00 pm
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'85 Winder musket

W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.

June 12, 2020
3:05 pm
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20200612_104303.jpgImage Enlarger20200612_104216.jpgImage Enlarger20200612_104122.jpgImage Enlarger20200612_104100.jpgImage Enlarger20200612_103406.jpgImage Enlarger20200612_104303-1.jpgImage Enlarger'85 Winder musket

W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.

June 12, 2020
3:55 pm
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Henry,

Your Winder Musket is a Model 87 (Third variation), and it is missing the Knock-off spring & screw.  There is no nut to retain the spring on the late production single shots.  The base of the spring was simply made thicker, and a screw hole drilled & tapped in it.  That stated, either type spring can be used (the older one with a nut, or the later one with the threaded hole).  Your Winder Musket uses the exact same spring as those used in the high-wall actions.

Bert

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June 12, 2020
5:31 pm
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Bert H. said
Henry,

Your Winder Musket is a Model 87 (Third variation),

Bert  

Bert, what is a model 87?  At what point were these called that or were all Winder muskets called this?  I have one even newer that Henry's but have never really studied these guns.

June 12, 2020
6:19 pm
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Chuck said

Bert, what is a model 87?  At what point were these called that or were all Winder muskets called this?  I have one even newer that Henry's but have never really studied these guns.  

A Model "87" is a Third variation Winder Musket.  For an unknown reason, Winchester cataloged the final iteration of the Winder Musket as "Model 87".  The First and Second variation (high-wall) Winder Muskets were simply referred to as a "22 Caliber Musket".  When the Third variation was introduced in January 1918, Winchester called it a "Model 87".

10-years ago I wrote an article for the Winchester Collector magazine about the Winder Muskets;

https://winchestercollector.org/magazines/201001/index.html

Bert

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June 12, 2020
6:23 pm
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Henry,

Does your Winder Musket 126996 have U.S. ordnance markings on it?  

Bert

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June 12, 2020
7:36 pm
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Yes it does. And I have a lot to learn about these as I've never heard , or read about a Model '87. I'll definetly read the article. Now I need to find a '85 musket.

W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.

June 13, 2020
12:47 pm
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All that said I still need to know where I can find and purchase a knock-off spring and screw for this Mod. '87 Winder musket. I did buy a '85 musket ser#30869, i just haven't got it yet but ti's on it's way. That should fill the need for that part ('85's) of the display,  I'm putting together, 5 pieces unless there is any other surprises, like  a mod. '871/2 derivative or something. This is what keeps all this collecting interesting and educational. I've learned something very valuable to-day, Thanks again Bert.

W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.

June 13, 2020
3:54 pm
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Harry,

Here's my M87 .......... although far from original.Laugh

https://winchestercollector.org/forum/whats-new/model-87-custom-winder-boys-rifle/

~Gary~

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June 13, 2020
9:35 pm
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10-years ago I wrote an article for the Winchester Collector magazine about the Winder Muskets;

https://winchestercollector.org/magazines/201001/index.html

Bert  

I guess I spoke too soon about the Log In problem.  Every time I try to open the link it takes me to a sign in page even thou I have signed in twice now???

June 13, 2020
11:19 pm
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Chuck said

I guess I spoke too soon about the Log In problem.  Every time I try to open the link it takes me to a sign in page even thou I have signed in twice now???  

Chuck,

It does the same thing to me, and I am signed in as the Admin!  What I have done that seems to get around the problem is to use the Search function to pull up the specific magazine, and then it opens just fine.

Bert

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