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Well I guess this is a rare bird, I just acquired with the ammo. I understand it is 1 of 5, according to the red book. Any others out there?
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
That is a “Lightweight Single Shot Carbine” as cataloged by Winchester. They are most commonly found in the 44 WCF caliber, with a smaller number made in both 32 WCF (39) and 22 WCF (5) In total, just (389) were made in all calibers. A very substantial number of them were exported to Australia. Of the (5) made in 22 WCF, two of them reside in the collection displayed at the CFM.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Do you have to have an ATF clearance letter for that one?
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
There is no B.A.T.F. in Canada .I guess if I take it to the U. S. I would have to get an B.A.T.F. clearance for it., ain’t gonna’ happen. I don’t know much about the ’85’s so thanks Bert for the info. How scarce is the ammo? Also I need for a Winder musket, the flat spring, external screw and square nut that attaches to the lower tang for the trigger I think. Where would I look to find one?
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
Henry Mero said
There is no B.A.T.F. in Canada .I guess if I take it to the U. S. I would have to get an B.A.T.F. clearance for it., ain’t gonna’ happen. I don’t know much about the ’85’s so thanks Bert for the info. How scarce is the ammo? Also I need for a Winder musket, the flat spring, external screw and square nut that attaches to the lower tang for the trigger I think. Where would I look to find one?
Henry,
Why so specific on the Winder Musket? Only the First variation was made with a flat-spring action, and not even all of them. Beginning in early 1908, Winchester rapidly transitioned from the flat-spring to the coil-spring The Second and Third variation Winder Muskets were all coil-spring actions.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Only reason for the Winder musket is because I have one that is missing those pieces. So i’ll re-phrase My request, where would I find the trigger flat spring, square nut and external screw on the lower tang for a Model 1885 P.S. My Winder musket is ser#126996 and is missing those pieces.
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
Henry Mero said
Only reason for the Winder musket is because I have one that is missing those pieces. So i’ll re-phrase My request, where would I find the trigger flat spring, square nut and external screw on the lower tang for a Model 1885 P.S. My Winder musket is ser#126996 and is missing those pieces.
Henry,
Your Winder Musket is not a First variation, nor does it have a flat-spring action. Based on the serial number, it should be a Third variation (low-wall), but it could possible be a parts clean-up (late) production Second variation. Can you send pictures of it to me via email?
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert I’ll get them on here shortly
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
’85 Winder musket
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
’85 Winder musket
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
Henry,
Your Winder Musket is a Model 87 (Third variation), and it is missing the Knock-off spring & screw. There is no nut to retain the spring on the late production single shots. The base of the spring was simply made thicker, and a screw hole drilled & tapped in it. That stated, either type spring can be used (the older one with a nut, or the later one with the threaded hole). Your Winder Musket uses the exact same spring as those used in the high-wall actions.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
Henry,Your Winder Musket is a Model 87 (Third variation),
Bert
Bert, what is a model 87? At what point were these called that or were all Winder muskets called this? I have one even newer that Henry’s but have never really studied these guns.
Chuck said
Bert, what is a model 87? At what point were these called that or were all Winder muskets called this? I have one even newer that Henry’s but have never really studied these guns.
A Model “87” is a Third variation Winder Musket. For an unknown reason, Winchester cataloged the final iteration of the Winder Musket as “Model 87”. The First and Second variation (high-wall) Winder Muskets were simply referred to as a “22 Caliber Musket”. When the Third variation was introduced in January 1918, Winchester called it a “Model 87”.
10-years ago I wrote an article for the Winchester Collector magazine about the Winder Muskets;
https://winchestercollector.org/magazines/201001/index.html
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Henry,
Does your Winder Musket 126996 have U.S. ordnance markings on it?
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Yes it does. And I have a lot to learn about these as I’ve never heard , or read about a Model ’87. I’ll definetly read the article. Now I need to find a ’85 musket.
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
All that said I still need to know where I can find and purchase a knock-off spring and screw for this Mod. ’87 Winder musket. I did buy a ’85 musket ser#30869, i just haven’t got it yet but ti’s on it’s way. That should fill the need for that part (’85’s) of the display, I’m putting together, 5 pieces unless there is any other surprises, like a mod. ‘871/2 derivative or something. This is what keeps all this collecting interesting and educational. I’ve learned something very valuable to-day, Thanks again Bert.
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
January 26, 2011
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Harry,
Here’s my M87 ………. although far from original.
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/whats-new/model-87-custom-winder-boys-rifle/
~Gary~
10-years ago I wrote an article for the Winchester Collector magazine about the Winder Muskets;
https://winchestercollector.org/magazines/201001/index.html
Bert
I guess I spoke too soon about the Log In problem. Every time I try to open the link it takes me to a sign in page even thou I have signed in twice now???
Chuck said
I guess I spoke too soon about the Log In problem. Every time I try to open the link it takes me to a sign in page even thou I have signed in twice now???
Chuck,
It does the same thing to me, and I am signed in as the Admin! What I have done that seems to get around the problem is to use the Search function to pull up the specific magazine, and then it opens just fine.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
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