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December 21, 2006
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Well I guess this is a rare bird, I just acquired with the ammo. I understand it is 1 of 5, according to the red book. Any others out there?
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
January 19, 2017
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Handsome. I’ll bet that has seen some time in the hand.
April 15, 2005
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That is a “Lightweight Single Shot Carbine” as cataloged by Winchester. They are most commonly found in the 44 WCF caliber, with a smaller number made in both 32 WCF (39) and 22 WCF (5) In total, just (389) were made in all calibers. A very substantial number of them were exported to Australia. Of the (5) made in 22 WCF, two of them reside in the collection displayed at the CFM.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
May 23, 2009
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Do you have to have an ATF clearance letter for that one?
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
December 21, 2006
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There is no B.A.T.F. in Canada .I guess if I take it to the U. S. I would have to get an B.A.T.F. clearance for it., ain’t gonna’ happen. I don’t know much about the ’85’s so thanks Bert for the info. How scarce is the ammo? Also I need for a Winder musket, the flat spring, external screw and square nut that attaches to the lower tang for the trigger I think. Where would I look to find one?
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
April 15, 2005
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Henry Mero said
There is no B.A.T.F. in Canada .I guess if I take it to the U. S. I would have to get an B.A.T.F. clearance for it., ain’t gonna’ happen. I don’t know much about the ’85’s so thanks Bert for the info. How scarce is the ammo? Also I need for a Winder musket, the flat spring, external screw and square nut that attaches to the lower tang for the trigger I think. Where would I look to find one?
Henry,
Why so specific on the Winder Musket? Only the First variation was made with a flat-spring action, and not even all of them. Beginning in early 1908, Winchester rapidly transitioned from the flat-spring to the coil-spring The Second and Third variation Winder Muskets were all coil-spring actions.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
December 21, 2006
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Only reason for the Winder musket is because I have one that is missing those pieces. So i’ll re-phrase My request, where would I find the trigger flat spring, square nut and external screw on the lower tang for a Model 1885 P.S. My Winder musket is ser#126996 and is missing those pieces.
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
April 15, 2005
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Henry Mero said
Only reason for the Winder musket is because I have one that is missing those pieces. So i’ll re-phrase My request, where would I find the trigger flat spring, square nut and external screw on the lower tang for a Model 1885 P.S. My Winder musket is ser#126996 and is missing those pieces.
Henry,
Your Winder Musket is not a First variation, nor does it have a flat-spring action. Based on the serial number, it should be a Third variation (low-wall), but it could possible be a parts clean-up (late) production Second variation. Can you send pictures of it to me via email?
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
December 21, 2006
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Bert I’ll get them on here shortly
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
December 21, 2006
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’85 Winder musket
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
December 21, 2006
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’85 Winder musket
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
April 15, 2005
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Henry,
Your Winder Musket is a Model 87 (Third variation), and it is missing the Knock-off spring & screw. There is no nut to retain the spring on the late production single shots. The base of the spring was simply made thicker, and a screw hole drilled & tapped in it. That stated, either type spring can be used (the older one with a nut, or the later one with the threaded hole). Your Winder Musket uses the exact same spring as those used in the high-wall actions.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
March 31, 2009
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Bert H. said
Henry,Your Winder Musket is a Model 87 (Third variation),
Bert
Bert, what is a model 87? At what point were these called that or were all Winder muskets called this? I have one even newer that Henry’s but have never really studied these guns.
April 15, 2005
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Chuck said
Bert, what is a model 87? At what point were these called that or were all Winder muskets called this? I have one even newer that Henry’s but have never really studied these guns.
A Model “87” is a Third variation Winder Musket. For an unknown reason, Winchester cataloged the final iteration of the Winder Musket as “Model 87”. The First and Second variation (high-wall) Winder Muskets were simply referred to as a “22 Caliber Musket”. When the Third variation was introduced in January 1918, Winchester called it a “Model 87”.
10-years ago I wrote an article for the Winchester Collector magazine about the Winder Muskets;
https://winchestercollector.org/magazines/201001/index.html
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
April 15, 2005
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Henry,
Does your Winder Musket 126996 have U.S. ordnance markings on it?
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
December 21, 2006
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Yes it does. And I have a lot to learn about these as I’ve never heard , or read about a Model ’87. I’ll definetly read the article. Now I need to find a ’85 musket.
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
December 21, 2006
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All that said I still need to know where I can find and purchase a knock-off spring and screw for this Mod. ’87 Winder musket. I did buy a ’85 musket ser#30869, i just haven’t got it yet but ti’s on it’s way. That should fill the need for that part (’85’s) of the display, I’m putting together, 5 pieces unless there is any other surprises, like a mod. ‘871/2 derivative or something. This is what keeps all this collecting interesting and educational. I’ve learned something very valuable to-day, Thanks again Bert.
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
January 26, 2011
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Harry,
Here’s my M87 ………. although far from original.
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/whats-new/model-87-custom-winder-boys-rifle/
~Gary~
March 31, 2009
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10-years ago I wrote an article for the Winchester Collector magazine about the Winder Muskets;
https://winchestercollector.org/magazines/201001/index.html
Bert
I guess I spoke too soon about the Log In problem. Every time I try to open the link it takes me to a sign in page even thou I have signed in twice now???
April 15, 2005
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Chuck said
I guess I spoke too soon about the Log In problem. Every time I try to open the link it takes me to a sign in page even thou I have signed in twice now???
Chuck,
It does the same thing to me, and I am signed in as the Admin! What I have done that seems to get around the problem is to use the Search function to pull up the specific magazine, and then it opens just fine.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
