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March 20, 2009
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Bill Brown said
I am looking at a Winchester 1894 Deluxe, Nickel Steel Barrel, chambered in .25-35 WCF. Serial #285060 dates it to 1903 It has a 24″ Octagon barrel, Lyman flip up rear peep sight, crescent metal butt plate. My question is were all deluxe models checkered? This one is not. According to a Winchester catalog it appears it was an option in 1917.Thanks for any help
PS any thoughts on value?
Bill,
For comparison this is a deluxe, or a Fancy Sporting Rifle by Winchester’s nomenclature. Obviously the differences are obvious! 🙂
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
Bert H. said
To add some clarity to this topic, per the April 1900 catalog (No. 65) Winchester manufactured the following variations of the Model 1894;1. Sporting Rifle, 26-inch round, octagon, or half-octagon barrel, Full or Half magazine, straight grip stock, plain walnut, crescent butt.
2. Take Down Sporting Rifle, 26-inch round, octagon, or half-octagon barrel, Full or Half magazine, straight grip stock, plain walnut, crescent butt.
3. Fancy Sporting Rifle, 26-inch round, octagon, or half-octagon barrel, Full or Half Magazine, fancy walnut checked pistol grip stock and forearm (3X, H-pattern), crescent butt.
4. Take Down Fancy Sporting Rifle, 26-inch round, octagon, or half-octagon barrel, Full or Half magazine, fancy walnut checked pistol grip stock and forearm (3X, H-pattern), crescent butt.
5. Extra Light Weight Rifle, 26-inch or under round, octagon, or half-octagon barrel, Full or Half magazine, straight grip not checked stock, plain walnut, shotgun butt with hard rubber plate.
6. Extra Light Weight Take Down Rifle, 26-inch or under round, octagon, or half-octagon barrel, Full or Half magazine, straight grip not checked stock, plain walnut, shotgun butt with hard rubber plate.
7. Carbine, 20-inch round barrel, Full or Half magazine, sling ring.
Any other features found that are found on the above listed variations were “special order”. Winchester never used the terms “deluxe” or “semi-deluxe”.
In regards to Ted’s rifle, it is a Sporting Rifle with just three special order features (the set trigger, plain pistol grip, and shotgun butt). It is not a “deluxe” rifle.
Bert
Just found this thread & great information & facts by Bert as well as the explanation by Clarence.
Can anyone advise if 1x & 2x wood is just another collector term as only 3x is mentioned here. Also wondering if there was a special order finish?
AG
May 2, 2009
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AG said
Just found this thread & great information & facts by Bert as well as the explanation by Clarence.
Can anyone advise if 1x & 2x wood is just another collector term as only 3x is mentioned here. Also wondering if there was a special order finish?AG
The wood X rating is in the ledger but only on some of the guns ordered with fancy wood. If gun was a deluxe and would have fancy wood as a standard feature the wood rating wasn’t always noted.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
April 15, 2005
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The term “1X”, “2X”, “3X”, and very rarely “4X” comes from the number of Xs stamped on the inside edge of the lower tang. The tangs were nearly always marked with “X”, “XX”, or “XXX” to denote the graded quality of the wood. Winchester very seldom ever noted the specific grade of the wood in the factory ledger records. 3X wood was “standard” on the Fancy Sporting Rifles, though 2X wood was often used.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
March 31, 2009
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I recently looked at an 1892 standard rifle with take down. It had what I would call 1-2X wood. I could not pull the wood to check the tang. The gun lettered but did not mention anything about upgraded wood. Sometimes when you ordered a gun with a special feature they would pick out a nicer piece of wood too.
I have had a couple like this. None had X’s on the lower tang but definitely had fancier wood.
October 29, 2019
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Bert H. said
The term “1X”, “2X”, “3X”, and very rarely “4X” comes from the number of Xs stamped on the inside edge of the lower tang. The tangs were nearly always marked with “X”, “XX”, or “XXX” to denote the graded quality of the wood. Winchester very seldom ever noted the specific grade of the wood in the factory ledger records. 3X wood was “standard” on the Fancy Sporting Rifles, though 2X wood was often used.Bert
I have a 95 with 2 X’s on the tang along with numbers. It has checkered wood, but sadly most of the checkering has been sanded off.
Shoot low boys. They're riding Shetland Ponies.
May 2, 2009
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More often than X ratings for the wood in the ledger I see they state “Fancy”
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
April 15, 2005
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1873man said
More often than X ratings for the wood in the ledger I see they state “Fancy”Bob
I see the same thing in the Model 1885 records, and it usually indicates a minimum of 3X wood. That stated, it is only infrequently noted in the ledger records. The large majority of the Special Sporting Rifles (the term Winchester used), Special Single Shot Rifles, and Schuetzen Rifles do not have anything noted in the records, as fancy (3X) wood was standard for those variations.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
I think your gun was made in 1905, not 1903. The photos show it has the Winchester proof symbols which puts it no older than July 1905. Caution, I have been wrong before.
May 2, 2009
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Bert,
I agree with that, the vast majority of the 73’s that are considered deluxes that would have fancy wood don’t state a wood grade.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
I had an 86 that stated “X stock” in the letter. It was a nicer grain & finish then any of my other rifles.
AG
July 16, 2013
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Bert H. said
To add some clarity to this topic, per the April 1900 catalog (No. 65) Winchester manufactured the following variations of the Model 1894;1. Sporting Rifle, 26-inch round, octagon, or half-octagon barrel, Full or Half magazine, straight grip stock, plain walnut, crescent butt.
2. Take Down Sporting Rifle, 26-inch round, octagon, or half-octagon barrel, Full or Half magazine, straight grip stock, plain walnut, crescent butt.
3. Fancy Sporting Rifle, 26-inch round, octagon, or half-octagon barrel, Full or Half Magazine, fancy walnut checked pistol grip stock and forearm (3X, H-pattern), crescent butt.
4. Take Down Fancy Sporting Rifle, 26-inch round, octagon, or half-octagon barrel, Full or Half magazine, fancy walnut checked pistol grip stock and forearm (3X, H-pattern), crescent butt.
5. Extra Light Weight Rifle, 26-inch or under round, octagon, or half-octagon barrel, Full or Half magazine, straight grip not checked stock, plain walnut, shotgun butt with hard rubber plate.
6. Extra Light Weight Take Down Rifle, 26-inch or under round, octagon, or half-octagon barrel, Full or Half magazine, straight grip not checked stock, plain walnut, shotgun butt with hard rubber plate.
7. Carbine, 20-inch round barrel, Full or Half magazine, sling ring.
Any other features found that are found on the above listed variations were “special order”. Winchester never used the terms “deluxe” or “semi-deluxe”.
In regards to Ted’s rifle, it is a Sporting Rifle with just three special order features (the set trigger, plain pistol grip, and shotgun butt). It is not a “deluxe” rifle.
Bert, what would this fall under, lots of extra’s, but plain PG.
April 15, 2005
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Tony,
Your Model 1894 is a standard Take Down Rifle with a special order 24-inch barrel and a pistol grip stock The sights were also special ordered.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 7, 2015
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[email protected] said
I think your gun was made in 1905, not 1903. The photos show it has the Winchester proof symbols which puts it no older than July 1905. Caution, I have been wrong before.
Have a similar situation. Some receivers, particularly those destined for special riles, occasionally sat in a bin for a few years before being built into rifles.
Mike
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