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1894 checkering
September 20, 2019
4:33 pm
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San Angelo, TX
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I am looking at a Winchester 1894 Deluxe, Nickel Steel Barrel, chambered in .25-35 WCF. Serial #285060 dates it to 1903 It has a 24" Octagon barrel, Lyman flip up rear peep sight, crescent metal butt plate. My question is were all deluxe models checkered? This one is not. According to a Winchester catalog it appears it was an option in 1917.

Thanks for any help

PS any thoughts on value?

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September 20, 2019
4:41 pm
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What fancy features does this gun have?  Other than the Lyman sight I see no special features.  Pictures are needed.  You could get pistol grip guns with no checkering.

September 20, 2019
5:41 pm
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I have several deluxe '94's that are not checkered, pistol grip and straight grip, some with fancy{xx & xxx wood} and some with plain or straight grain wood, shotgun butt and crescent butt, rifles and carbines. Usually though the factory letter will mention it. eg: plain pistol grip stock or checkered stock, pistol grip. Sometimes they would mention the grade of checkering or the finish of the wood like piano finish or oil finish. I have always considered a deluxe gun with a straight grain {plain} stock a special ordered feature as deluxe guns were commonly manufactured with extra finish wood as standard, probably with the thinking by the buyer that straight grain wood was stronger. Like Bert says, I recommend You get a factory letter from Cody, it'll tell ya'll how and when You're gun was made and is worth more than it's weight in gold come time to substantiate Your Winchester.

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September 20, 2019
9:11 pm
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This gun is in an auction ending tomorrow (9/21).

1894-Deluxe.pngImage Enlarger

This a picture from the auction site.

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September 21, 2019
1:19 am
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Can't tell You much from a picture but it looksfine to Me, I have one, ser#335378 in 38-55 that looks identical to that one, that is the same configuration. good luck.

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September 21, 2019
7:07 pm
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Well, I got it for $1650. There must be something wrong with it, or I am very lucky. When I receive it I'll post pictures and request a letter. Stand by.

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September 21, 2019
8:39 pm
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Congradulations Bill  If it's the one in the picture ,you should feel guilty I'd say You stole it .

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September 21, 2019
8:44 pm
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We'll see.Thanks for your input.

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September 21, 2019
11:13 pm
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Bill Brown said
This gun is in an auction ending tomorrow (9/21).

1894-Deluxe.pngImage Enlarger

This a picture from the auction site.  

I would not call this a deluxe gun but it is a nice plain pistol grip.

September 22, 2019
3:51 pm
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Chuck said

I would not call this a deluxe gun but it is a nice plain pistol grip.  

I agree Chuck.

As we've discussed before, "Deluxe" is really a collectors term as Winchester didn't use this language in the earlier models. In the catalogs they were "Fancy Sporting" in the levers, or "Special Sporting" in the single shots. I guess I've seen "Fancy Finished" as well in the 1890's catalog description.

 

For discussion, since the subject came up in another thread as well……………… here is my take on what the ledger notes equate to:

Plain pistol grip stock - a standard rifle ordered with a pistol grip and plain wood. (Bills gun above) I've heard a few folks call this semi-deluxe but not the majority

Plain pistol grip stock, Checkered - pistol grip with "I" checkering and plain (straight grain) wood - most call it semi-deluxe

Checkered stock, Pistol grip  - pistol grip with "H" checkering and fancy (extra grain 1X,2X,3X,4X) wood - most call it deluxe (or full deluxe)

Of course there's various other combinations of notes for oddities like straight grip deluxes, or non-checkered guns with extra grain wood sometimes just say "fancy wood". Checked or carved patterns other than the I and H usually will be specifically noted as such in the letter (such as E, or F).

Just my general observations and definitely not in stone.

~Gary~

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September 22, 2019
4:22 pm
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  Gary, Well said, that's the way it was explained to me anytime the subject came up with Winchester collectors. T/R

September 22, 2019
5:10 pm
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pdog72 said

I agree Chuck.

As we've discussed before, "Deluxe" is really a collectors term as Winchester didn't use this language in the earlier models. In the catalogs they were "Fancy Sporting" in the levers, or "Special Sporting" in the single shots. I guess I've seen "Fancy Finished" as well in the 1890's catalog description.

 

For discussion, since the subject came up in another thread as well……………… here is my take on what the ledger notes equate to:

Plain pistol grip stock - a standard rifle ordered with a pistol grip and plain wood. (Bills gun above) I've heard a few folks call this semi-deluxe but not the majority

Plain pistol grip stock, Checkered - pistol grip with "I" checkering and plain (straight grain) wood - most call it semi-deluxe

Checkered stock, Pistol grip  - pistol grip with "H" checkering and fancy (extra grain 1X,2X,3X,4X) wood - most call it deluxe (or full deluxe)

Of course there's various other combinations of notes for oddities like straight grip deluxes, or non-checkered guns with extra grain wood sometimes just say "fancy wood". Checked or carved patterns other than the I and H usually will be specifically noted as such in the letter (such as E, or F).

Just my general observations and definitely not in stone.  

Great info from all of you. I definitely agree it was a rifle ordered with a pistol grip and should not be labeled as "deluxe".  I think the price I paid was good and I'm anxious to get the gun to add to me collection because it's "different".

Thanks again.

18941.jpgImage Enlarger  18942.jpgImage Enlarger  18949.jpgImage Enlarger18944.jpgImage Enlarger18946.jpgImage Enlarger18943.jpgImage Enlarger18948.jpgImage Enlarger

Picture 1 shows chip out of tang wood. 

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September 30, 2019
9:18 pm
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Well I got the new 1894 today and am quite happy with it. I've posted pictures and hope you folks will offer comments (good or bad).

win-1894-6-1.JPGImage Enlargerwin-1894-5-1.JPGImage Enlargerwin-1894-4-1.JPGImage Enlargerwin-1894-3-1.JPGImage Enlargerwin-1894-2-1.JPGImage Enlargerwin-1894-1-1.JPGImage Enlarger small chip, I have an old stock and could do a repair with a piece of it?win-1894-8.JPGImage Enlargerlyman-sight-1.JPGImage Enlargerlyman-sight1-1.JPGImage Enlarger Does the sight look right?

winchesters.JPGImage Enlargerwinchesters-1.JPGImage Enlarger Just had to post a picture of my Winchesters and my Colt SA. By the way the labels on the wood are not correct.

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September 30, 2019
11:56 pm
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Agree with you Gary on the collector terms that get bantered around and how you described them above. 

The way they were "categorized" or explained to me  is a plain PG (unchecked wood) or one with I checked (diamond) forearm with limited coverage on the pistol grip (rounded border on the PG) those were always called semi-deluxe.  Have seen some too that are "I" checked (diamond forearm) with pistol grip in which the checking on the PG extends down to the grip cap, a little more coverage than the standard "I"checked (not the rounded border), would call those semi-deluxe as well.  Basically one with plain wood with PG whether unchecked or having limited checking is semi-deluxe.  Then the deluxe would be your H checked or better with fancy wood.  Same would apply for straight grip examples depending on the wood grade, limited or full checked.  Just our collector way of pigeon-holing different types of configurations, variations, or certain characteristics.    

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October 1, 2019
12:19 am
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Not to hijack the thread, but I have a M1894 shipped in 1902 that letters as follows:

Type: Rifle

Caliber: 30

Barrel Type: 1/2 Octagon

Trigger: Set

Plain, Pistol grip

1/2 Magazine

Shotgun butt

Takedown

The gun also has a three leaf, platinum lined rear sight that was not noted in the letter.

Am I correct in believing this gun would be considered a Standard Rifle with a number of special order features?

October 1, 2019
12:31 am
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I guess We all have our opinion of what is deluxe and what is not.  Ted, Personally I would call Your gun a deluxe piece .For what it's worth I call any gun with several optional or special order features a deluxe gun.Your gun has 7, letterable, special order or optional features, without the sights. I just don't know what more it would take to make it a "deluxe" Winchester. My opinion only.

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October 1, 2019
1:32 am
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Tedk said
Am I correct in believing this gun would be considered a Standard Rifle with a number of special order features?  

Yes you are, because as pdog correctly pointed out, "deluxe" is not Winchester terminology.  In fact, it's so vague & ambiguous as to be meaningless, practically speaking, whereas the meaning of "special order" is crystal clear, and to my way of thinking, far more significant. 

If the Winchester catalog had offered certain models with upgraded features called "Deluxe," it would require no thoughtfulness or imagination on the part of the customer to merely "check that box" & send in the dough.  "Special order," on the other hand, suggests that the customer looked over all the available options, considered thoughtfully what he did or didn't want,  & placed his order accordingly. 

And any customer who ordered a (absurdly mis-named!) shotgun butt has demonstrated unmistakably his superior intelligence!

October 1, 2019
2:51 am
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To add some clarity to this topic, per the April 1900 catalog (No. 65) Winchester manufactured the following variations of the Model 1894;

1.  Sporting Rifle, 26-inch round, octagon, or half-octagon barrel, Full or Half magazine, straight grip stock, plain walnut, crescent butt.

2.  Take Down Sporting Rifle, 26-inch round, octagon, or half-octagon barrel, Full or Half magazine, straight grip stock, plain walnut, crescent butt.

3.  Fancy Sporting Rifle, 26-inch round, octagon, or half-octagon barrel, Full or Half Magazine, fancy walnut checked pistol grip stock and forearm (3X, H-pattern), crescent butt.

4.  Take Down Fancy Sporting Rifle, 26-inch round, octagon, or half-octagon barrel, Full or Half magazine, fancy walnut checked pistol grip stock and forearm (3X, H-pattern), crescent butt.

5.  Extra Light Weight Rifle, 26-inch or under round, octagon, or half-octagon barrel, Full or Half magazine, straight grip not checked stock, plain walnut, shotgun butt with hard rubber plate.

6.  Extra Light Weight Take Down Rifle, 26-inch or under round, octagon, or half-octagon barrel, Full or Half magazine, straight grip not checked stock, plain walnut, shotgun butt with hard rubber plate.

7.  Carbine, 20-inch round barrel, Full or Half magazine,  sling ring.

Any other features found that are found on the above listed variations were "special order".  Winchester never used the terms "deluxe" or "semi-deluxe".

In regards to Ted's rifle, it is a Sporting Rifle with just three special order features (the set trigger, plain pistol grip, and shotgun butt).  It is not a "deluxe" rifle.

Bert

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October 1, 2019
2:11 pm
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Thanks Bert for the clarification.

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October 1, 2019
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Very enlightening, that explains it all Bert. TY.

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