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To restore/refinish or not? Original condition vs neglect

J B

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March 2, 2019 - 5:33 pm

This is an interesting discussion on the merits of “patina,” “original condition,” and what is truly a collectors’ condition firearm vs one that has been neglected to the point of deteriorating or possibly becoming unsafe.

Does refinishing hurt value, or preserve a firearm for future generations? It depends on a whole bunch of factors, but this video makes some valid arguments.

Watch <a href="“>Collector’s Ethos</a> on Youtube</p> </div></div><div id='spPostIndexUserFlexSignature79528' class='spPostUserSignature'><p>All men have fears. The brave put down their fears and go forward, sometimes to death but always to victory.</p> <p><span style="color: #008000">Old guns are like old cars and old men. They are meant to be taken out and used from time to time, not locked away or put on display in a museum.</span></p> </div><div style='clear: both;height:1px'></div></div></div><div class='spTopicPostSection spEven spType-User spRank-member spUsergroup-waca-member spUserPost' id='eachPost79562'><a id='p79562'></a><div class='spUserSection spLeft' id='spColTopic13329972547' style='min-height: 50px'><div class='spPlainSection'><div class='spPostUserAvatar spCenter'><img src='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-avatars/1412271075Maverick_-_Title_Card.jpg' class='spAvatar' style='max-width: 50px' alt='Avatar' /></div><div id='spPostIndexUserName79562' class='spPostUserName spCenter'>Maverick</div><div id='spPostIndexUserRank79562' class='spPostUserRank spCenter'><span class="spRank-member">Member </span></div><div id='spPostIndexUserMemberships79562' class='spPostUserMemberships spCenter'><span class="spUserGroup-waca-member">WACA Member</span><br /></div><div id='spPostIndexUserPosts79562' class='spPostUserPosts spCenter'>Forum Posts: 2035</div><div id='spPostIndexUserRegistered79562' class='spPostUserRegistered spCenter'>Member Since:<br /> May 23, 2009</div><div id='spPostIndexUserStatus79562' class='spCenter spPostUserStatus'><span class='spPostUserStatusOffline'><img class='spIcon' src='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/reboot/images/lightpack/sp_UserOfflineSmall.png' alt='sp_UserOfflineSmall' /> Offline</span></div></div><div class='spCenter'></div></div><div class='spPostSection spRight' id='spColTopic21358581204' style='min-height: auto'><div class='spPostActionSection'><span id='spPostIndexNumber79562' class='spLabelBordered spLeft'>2</span><div id='spPostIndexUserDate79562' class='spPostUserDate spLeft'>March 3, 2019 - 3:33 am</div><a class='spButton spLeft' id='spPostIndexPermalink79562' title='The post permalink' rel='nofollow' href='https://winchestercollector.org/forum/restoration-repair-and-maintenance/to-restore-refinish-or-not-original-condition-vs-neglect/#p79562'><img class='spIcon' src='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/reboot/images/sp_Permalink.png' alt='sp_Permalink' /> </a><a class='spButton spLeft spOpenDialog' id='spPostIndexPrint79562' title='Print this post' rel='nofollow' data-site='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php?action=print&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwinchestercollector.org%2Fforum%2Frestoration-repair-and-maintenance%2Fto-restore-refinish-or-not-original-condition-vs-neglect%2F&id=11725&page=1&totalpages=1&index=2&_wpnonce=47ab6c25b6' data-label='Print Options' data-width='400' data-height='0' data-align='center'><img class='spIcon' src='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/reboot/images/sp_Print.png' alt='sp_Print' /> </a></div><div class='spPostContentSection'><div id='spPostIndexContent79562' class='spPostContent'><p>I’d also thing it depends on what your definition of “collecting” is. There are plenty of guys that love to collect genuine Relic firearms. And Relics by the very definition have been neglected. </p> <p>Sincerely,</p> <p>Maverick</p> </div></div><div id='spPostIndexUserFlexSignature79562' class='spPostUserSignature'><p><img data-upload="1" data-width="574" data-height="250" title="ToolArray-SignatureLowRes-4.jpg" alt="ToolArray-SignatureLowRes-4.jpg" src="https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-image-uploads/maverick/2019/09/ToolArray-SignatureLowRes-4.jpg" width="100" height="43" /></p> <p style="text-align: left">WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!</p> <p><a href="https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/</a></p> </div><div style='clear: both;height:1px'></div></div></div><div class='spTopicPostSection spOdd spType-User spRank-member spUsergroup-waca-guest spUserPost' id='eachPost79565'><a id='p79565'></a><div class='spUserSection spLeft' id='spColTopic11129604461' style='min-height: 50px'><div class='spPlainSection'><div class='spPostUserAvatar spCenter'><img src='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-avatars/defaults/userdefault.png' class='spAvatar' style='max-width: 50px' alt='Avatar' /></div><div id='spPostIndexUserName79565' class='spPostUserName spCenter'>Huck Riley</div><div id='spPostIndexUserRank79565' class='spPostUserRank spCenter'><span class="spRank-member">Member</span></div><div id='spPostIndexUserMemberships79565' class='spPostUserMemberships spCenter'><span class="spUserGroup-waca-guest">WACA Guest</span><br /></div><div id='spPostIndexUserPosts79565' class='spPostUserPosts spCenter'>Forum Posts: 491</div><div id='spPostIndexUserRegistered79565' class='spPostUserRegistered spCenter'>Member Since:<br /> January 19, 2017</div><div id='spPostIndexUserStatus79565' class='spCenter spPostUserStatus'><span class='spPostUserStatusOffline'><img class='spIcon' src='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/reboot/images/lightpack/sp_UserOfflineSmall.png' alt='sp_UserOfflineSmall' /> Offline</span></div></div><div class='spCenter'></div></div><div class='spPostSection spRight' id='spColTopic21049106415' style='min-height: auto'><div class='spPostActionSection'><span id='spPostIndexNumber79565' class='spLabelBordered spLeft'>3</span><div id='spPostIndexUserDate79565' class='spPostUserDate spLeft'>March 3, 2019 - 4:05 am</div><a class='spButton spLeft' id='spPostIndexPermalink79565' title='The post permalink' rel='nofollow' href='https://winchestercollector.org/forum/restoration-repair-and-maintenance/to-restore-refinish-or-not-original-condition-vs-neglect/#p79565'><img class='spIcon' src='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/reboot/images/sp_Permalink.png' alt='sp_Permalink' /> </a><a class='spButton spLeft spOpenDialog' id='spPostIndexPrint79565' title='Print this post' rel='nofollow' data-site='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php?action=print&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwinchestercollector.org%2Fforum%2Frestoration-repair-and-maintenance%2Fto-restore-refinish-or-not-original-condition-vs-neglect%2F&id=11725&page=1&totalpages=1&index=3&_wpnonce=47ab6c25b6' data-label='Print Options' data-width='400' data-height='0' data-align='center'><img class='spIcon' src='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/reboot/images/sp_Print.png' alt='sp_Print' /> </a></div><div class='spPostContentSection'><div id='spPostIndexContent79565' class='spPostContent'><blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><p><strong>Maverick said </strong><br /> There are plenty of guys that love to collect genuine Relic firearms. And Relics by the very definition have been neglected. </p> <p>Sincerely,</p> <p>Maverick </p></blockquote> <p>I resemble that remark!</p> </div></div><div style='clear: both;height:1px'></div></div></div><div class='spTopicPostSection spEven spType-User spRank-member spUsergroup-waca-member spUserPost' id='eachPost79574'><a id='p79574'></a><div class='spUserSection spLeft' id='spColTopic12166775832' style='min-height: 50px'><div class='spPlainSection'><div class='spPostUserAvatar spCenter'><img src='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-avatars/1510254918IMG_0927.jpg' class='spAvatar' style='max-width: 50px' alt='Avatar' /></div><div id='spPostIndexUserName79574' class='spPostUserName spCenter'>TXGunNut</div><div id='spPostIndexUserLocatin79574' class='spPostUserLocation spCenter'>Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess</div><div id='spPostIndexUserRank79574' class='spPostUserRank spCenter'><span class="spRank-member">Member </span></div><div id='spPostIndexUserMemberships79574' class='spPostUserMemberships spCenter'><span class="spUserGroup-waca-member">WACA Member</span><br /></div><div id='spPostIndexUserPosts79574' class='spPostUserPosts spCenter'>Forum Posts: 6413</div><div id='spPostIndexUserRegistered79574' class='spPostUserRegistered spCenter'>Member Since:<br /> November 7, 2015</div><div id='spPostIndexUserStatus79574' class='spCenter spPostUserStatus'><span class='spPostUserStatusOffline'><img class='spIcon' src='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/reboot/images/lightpack/sp_UserOfflineSmall.png' alt='sp_UserOfflineSmall' /> Offline</span></div></div><div class='spCenter'></div></div><div class='spPostSection spRight' id='spColTopic23485167454' style='min-height: auto'><div class='spPostActionSection'><span id='spPostIndexNumber79574' class='spLabelBordered spLeft'>4</span><div id='spPostIndexUserDate79574' class='spPostUserDate spLeft'>March 3, 2019 - 4:53 am</div><a class='spButton spLeft' id='spPostIndexPermalink79574' title='The post permalink' rel='nofollow' href='https://winchestercollector.org/forum/restoration-repair-and-maintenance/to-restore-refinish-or-not-original-condition-vs-neglect/#p79574'><img class='spIcon' src='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/reboot/images/sp_Permalink.png' alt='sp_Permalink' /> </a><a class='spButton spLeft spOpenDialog' id='spPostIndexPrint79574' title='Print this post' rel='nofollow' data-site='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php?action=print&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwinchestercollector.org%2Fforum%2Frestoration-repair-and-maintenance%2Fto-restore-refinish-or-not-original-condition-vs-neglect%2F&id=11725&page=1&totalpages=1&index=4&_wpnonce=47ab6c25b6' data-label='Print Options' data-width='400' data-height='0' data-align='center'><img class='spIcon' src='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/reboot/images/sp_Print.png' alt='sp_Print' /> </a></div><div class='spPostContentSection'><div id='spPostIndexContent79574' class='spPostContent'><p>Another definition that varies by user/collector is “maintenance”. A good example is an oil-finished stock on a heavily used but not abused shotgun or rifle. Good maintenance IMHO includes refreshing or reapplying oil to the wood from time to time. Some may confuse this with “refinishing” or may feel that I’m wrong when I consider it maintenance. Another situation is years of caked-on grime, grease and oil. Some think we should not disturb it, others believe we should gently clean it down to the original finish. I even think there will come a time when a vintage rifle with a good quality refinish job will have significant collector value. That may already be the case with some collectors, with others it never will. The gunsmith in the video makes some good points but a fair part of his business is apparently refinishing. I suspect there are a lot more refinished guns out there than we realize; I’ve seen guns that I know are refinished that appear original.</p> <p> </p> <p>Mike</p> </div></div><div id='spPostIndexUserFlexSignature79574' class='spPostUserSignature'><div class="signaturecontainer">Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA</div> <div class="signaturecontainer">BBHC Member, TGCA Board Member</div> <div class="signaturecontainer">Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe</div> <div class="signaturecontainer">I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove</div> <div class="signaturecontainer">Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut</div> <div>Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut</div> </div><div style='clear: both;height:1px'></div></div></div><div class='spTopicPostSection spOdd spType-User spRank-member spUsergroup-waca-guest spUserPost spAuthorPost' id='eachPost79629'><a id='p79629'></a><div class='spUserSection spLeft' id='spColTopic11734500347' style='min-height: 50px'><div class='spPlainSection'><div class='spPostUserAvatar spCenter'><img src='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-avatars/1548612682YourAvatar.png' class='spAvatar' style='max-width: 50px' alt='Avatar' /></div><div id='spPostIndexUserName79629' class='spPostUserName spCenter'>J B</div><div id='spPostIndexUserRank79629' class='spPostUserRank spCenter'><span class="spRank-member">Member</span></div><div id='spPostIndexUserMemberships79629' class='spPostUserMemberships spCenter'><span class="spUserGroup-waca-guest">WACA Guest</span><br /></div><div id='spPostIndexUserPosts79629' class='spPostUserPosts spCenter'>Forum Posts: 42</div><div id='spPostIndexUserRegistered79629' class='spPostUserRegistered spCenter'>Member Since:<br /> January 26, 2019</div><div id='spPostIndexUserStatus79629' class='spCenter spPostUserStatus'><span class='spPostUserStatusOffline'><img class='spIcon' src='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/reboot/images/lightpack/sp_UserOfflineSmall.png' alt='sp_UserOfflineSmall' /> Offline</span></div></div><div class='spCenter'></div></div><div class='spPostSection spRight' id='spColTopic23615840951' style='min-height: auto'><div class='spPostActionSection'><span id='spPostIndexNumber79629' class='spLabelBordered spLeft'>5</span><div id='spPostIndexUserDate79629' class='spPostUserDate spLeft'>March 3, 2019 - 8:54 pm</div><a class='spButton spLeft' id='spPostIndexPermalink79629' title='The post permalink' rel='nofollow' href='https://winchestercollector.org/forum/restoration-repair-and-maintenance/to-restore-refinish-or-not-original-condition-vs-neglect/#p79629'><img class='spIcon' src='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/reboot/images/sp_Permalink.png' alt='sp_Permalink' /> </a><a class='spButton spLeft spOpenDialog' id='spPostIndexPrint79629' title='Print this post' rel='nofollow' data-site='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php?action=print&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwinchestercollector.org%2Fforum%2Frestoration-repair-and-maintenance%2Fto-restore-refinish-or-not-original-condition-vs-neglect%2F&id=11725&page=1&totalpages=1&index=5&_wpnonce=47ab6c25b6' data-label='Print Options' data-width='400' data-height='0' data-align='center'><img class='spIcon' src='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/reboot/images/sp_Print.png' alt='sp_Print' /> </a></div><div class='spPostContentSection'><div id='spPostIndexContent79629' class='spPostContent'><blockquote class="spPostEmbedQuote"><p><strong>TXGunNut said </strong><br /> Another definition that varies by user/collector is “maintenance”. A good example is an oil-finished stock on a heavily used but not abused shotgun or rifle. Good maintenance IMHO includes refreshing or reapplying oil to the wood from time to time. Some may confuse this with “refinishing” or may feel that I’m wrong when I consider it maintenance. Another situation is years of caked-on grime, grease and oil. Some think we should not disturb it, others believe we should gently clean it down to the original finish. I even think there will come a time when a vintage rifle with a good quality refinish job will have significant collector value. That may already be the case with some collectors, with others it never will. The gunsmith in the video makes some good points but a fair part of his business is apparently refinishing. I suspect there are a lot more refinished guns out there than we realize; I’ve seen guns that I know are refinished that appear original.</p> <p> </p> <p>Mike </p></blockquote> <p>The problem with caked-on grime is what it may hide underneath. IMO, that *is* neglect. Firearms are a mechanical device that can become unexpectedly dangerous from neglect.</p> <p>I personally like the ‘smith’s approach of not letting an unsafe firearm remain so. I suspect if his business does involve a lot of refinishing, it’s because his customers understand the difference between a true collectable in top condition and a worn or neglected firearm that needs some attention to preserve its form and function. We as firearm owners have a responsibility to maintain them beyond the occasional wipe down.</p> </div></div><div id='spPostIndexUserFlexSignature79629' class='spPostUserSignature'><p>All men have fears. The brave put down their fears and go forward, sometimes to death but always to victory.</p> <p><span style="color: #008000">Old guns are like old cars and old men. They are meant to be taken out and used from time to time, not locked away or put on display in a museum.</span></p> </div><div style='clear: both;height:1px'></div></div></div><div class='spTopicPostSection spEven spType-User spRank-member spUsergroup-waca-member spUserPost' id='eachPost79639'><a id='p79639'></a><div class='spUserSection spLeft' id='spColTopic12885286838' style='min-height: 50px'><div class='spPlainSection'><div class='spPostUserAvatar spCenter'><img src='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-avatars/1510254918IMG_0927.jpg' class='spAvatar' style='max-width: 50px' alt='Avatar' /></div><div id='spPostIndexUserName79639' class='spPostUserName spCenter'>TXGunNut</div><div id='spPostIndexUserLocatin79639' class='spPostUserLocation spCenter'>Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess</div><div id='spPostIndexUserRank79639' class='spPostUserRank spCenter'><span class="spRank-member">Member </span></div><div id='spPostIndexUserMemberships79639' class='spPostUserMemberships spCenter'><span class="spUserGroup-waca-member">WACA Member</span><br /></div><div id='spPostIndexUserPosts79639' class='spPostUserPosts spCenter'>Forum Posts: 6413</div><div id='spPostIndexUserRegistered79639' class='spPostUserRegistered spCenter'>Member Since:<br /> November 7, 2015</div><div id='spPostIndexUserStatus79639' class='spCenter spPostUserStatus'><span class='spPostUserStatusOffline'><img class='spIcon' src='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/reboot/images/lightpack/sp_UserOfflineSmall.png' alt='sp_UserOfflineSmall' /> Offline</span></div></div><div class='spCenter'></div></div><div class='spPostSection spRight' id='spColTopic21183927346' style='min-height: auto'><div class='spPostActionSection'><span id='spPostIndexNumber79639' class='spLabelBordered spLeft'>6</span><div id='spPostIndexUserDate79639' class='spPostUserDate spLeft'>March 3, 2019 - 10:16 pm</div><a class='spButton spLeft' id='spPostIndexPermalink79639' title='The post permalink' rel='nofollow' href='https://winchestercollector.org/forum/restoration-repair-and-maintenance/to-restore-refinish-or-not-original-condition-vs-neglect/#p79639'><img class='spIcon' src='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/reboot/images/sp_Permalink.png' alt='sp_Permalink' /> </a><a class='spButton spLeft spOpenDialog' id='spPostIndexPrint79639' title='Print this post' rel='nofollow' data-site='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php?action=print&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwinchestercollector.org%2Fforum%2Frestoration-repair-and-maintenance%2Fto-restore-refinish-or-not-original-condition-vs-neglect%2F&id=11725&page=1&totalpages=1&index=6&_wpnonce=47ab6c25b6' data-label='Print Options' data-width='400' data-height='0' data-align='center'><img class='spIcon' src='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/reboot/images/sp_Print.png' alt='sp_Print' /> </a><a class='spButton spLeft spEditPostHistory' id='spPostIndexEditHistory79639' title='View edit history' rel='nofollow' data-html='<p>Edited by TXGunNut on March 3, 2019 - 10:17 pm<br /></p>' data-label='View edit history' data-width='400' data-height='0' data-align='0'><img class='spIcon' src='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/reboot/images/sp_EditHistory.png' alt='sp_EditHistory' /> </a></div><div class='spPostContentSection'><div id='spPostIndexContent79639' class='spPostContent'><p>I agree with your position on caked-on grime, J B. I bought a very early 1894 at the 2017 Cody show in exactly the condition you describe. I was able to remove the grime and underlying surface rust before it caused more than minor damage to the finish. The bluing is a bit thin in those spots but still present and not pitted. If I’d left it “as-is” it would have been severely damaged within a few years.</p> </div></div><div id='spPostIndexUserFlexSignature79639' class='spPostUserSignature'><div class="signaturecontainer">Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA</div> <div class="signaturecontainer">BBHC Member, TGCA Board Member</div> <div class="signaturecontainer">Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe</div> <div class="signaturecontainer">I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove</div> <div class="signaturecontainer">Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut</div> <div>Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut</div> </div><div style='clear: both;height:1px'></div></div></div><div class='spTopicPostSection spOdd spType-User spRank-member spUsergroup-waca-guest spUserPost' id='eachPost80809'><a id='p80809'></a><div class='spUserSection spLeft' id='spColTopic11927101509' style='min-height: 50px'><div class='spPlainSection'><div class='spPostUserAvatar spCenter'><img src='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-avatars/1461011303lucas-mccain.jpg' class='spAvatar' style='max-width: 50px' alt='Avatar' /></div><div id='spPostIndexUserName80809' class='spPostUserName spCenter'>Patrick</div><div id='spPostIndexUserLocatin80809' class='spPostUserLocation spCenter'>South Tx</div><div id='spPostIndexUserRank80809' class='spPostUserRank spCenter'><span class="spRank-member">Member</span></div><div id='spPostIndexUserMemberships80809' class='spPostUserMemberships spCenter'><span class="spUserGroup-waca-guest">WACA Guest</span><br /></div><div id='spPostIndexUserPosts80809' class='spPostUserPosts spCenter'>Forum Posts: 105</div><div id='spPostIndexUserRegistered80809' class='spPostUserRegistered spCenter'>Member Since:<br /> April 18, 2016</div><div id='spPostIndexUserStatus80809' class='spCenter spPostUserStatus'><span class='spPostUserStatusOffline'><img class='spIcon' src='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/reboot/images/lightpack/sp_UserOfflineSmall.png' alt='sp_UserOfflineSmall' /> Offline</span></div></div><div class='spCenter'></div></div><div class='spPostSection spRight' id='spColTopic23198109451' style='min-height: auto'><div class='spPostActionSection'><span id='spPostIndexNumber80809' class='spLabelBordered spLeft'>7</span><div id='spPostIndexUserDate80809' class='spPostUserDate spLeft'>April 7, 2019 - 4:09 pm</div><a class='spButton spLeft' id='spPostIndexPermalink80809' title='The post permalink' rel='nofollow' href='https://winchestercollector.org/forum/restoration-repair-and-maintenance/to-restore-refinish-or-not-original-condition-vs-neglect/#p80809'><img class='spIcon' src='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/reboot/images/sp_Permalink.png' alt='sp_Permalink' /> </a><a class='spButton spLeft spOpenDialog' id='spPostIndexPrint80809' title='Print this post' rel='nofollow' data-site='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php?action=print&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwinchestercollector.org%2Fforum%2Frestoration-repair-and-maintenance%2Fto-restore-refinish-or-not-original-condition-vs-neglect%2F&id=11725&page=1&totalpages=1&index=7&_wpnonce=47ab6c25b6' data-label='Print Options' data-width='400' data-height='0' data-align='center'><img class='spIcon' src='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/reboot/images/sp_Print.png' alt='sp_Print' /> </a></div><div class='spPostContentSection'><div id='spPostIndexContent80809' class='spPostContent'><p>I suppose I’m younger than the average member here. I know that a refinished gun will never be collected to the extent of a high grade high condition gun. But as time goes on this may be the only opportunity for the average guy or younger fiscally challenged individual to own a nice example. Like cars, watches etc.. They will never be original but will have a value over a poor original condition gun.</p> </div></div><div style='clear: both;height:1px'></div></div></div><div class='spTopicPostSection spEven spType-User spRank-member spUsergroup-waca-member spUserPost' id='eachPost80825'><a id='p80825'></a><div class='spUserSection spLeft' id='spColTopic13452104233' style='min-height: 50px'><div class='spPlainSection'><div class='spPostUserAvatar spCenter'><img src='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-avatars/defaults/userdefault.png' class='spAvatar' style='max-width: 50px' alt='Avatar' /></div><div id='spPostIndexUserName80825' class='spPostUserName spCenter'>mrcvs</div><div id='spPostIndexUserRank80825' class='spPostUserRank spCenter'><span class="spRank-member">Member </span></div><div id='spPostIndexUserMemberships80825' class='spPostUserMemberships spCenter'><span class="spUserGroup-waca-member">WACA Member</span><br /></div><div id='spPostIndexUserPosts80825' class='spPostUserPosts spCenter'>Forum Posts: 2196</div><div id='spPostIndexUserRegistered80825' class='spPostUserRegistered spCenter'>Member Since:<br /> September 22, 2011</div><div id='spPostIndexUserStatus80825' class='spCenter spPostUserStatus'><span class='spPostUserStatusOffline'><img class='spIcon' src='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/reboot/images/lightpack/sp_UserOfflineSmall.png' alt='sp_UserOfflineSmall' /> Offline</span></div></div><div class='spCenter'></div></div><div class='spPostSection spRight' id='spColTopic23970058108' style='min-height: auto'><div class='spPostActionSection'><span id='spPostIndexNumber80825' class='spLabelBordered spLeft'>8</span><div id='spPostIndexUserDate80825' class='spPostUserDate spLeft'>April 7, 2019 - 7:44 pm</div><a class='spButton spLeft' id='spPostIndexPermalink80825' title='The post permalink' rel='nofollow' href='https://winchestercollector.org/forum/restoration-repair-and-maintenance/to-restore-refinish-or-not-original-condition-vs-neglect/#p80825'><img class='spIcon' src='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/reboot/images/sp_Permalink.png' alt='sp_Permalink' /> </a><a class='spButton spLeft spOpenDialog' id='spPostIndexPrint80825' title='Print this post' rel='nofollow' data-site='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php?action=print&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwinchestercollector.org%2Fforum%2Frestoration-repair-and-maintenance%2Fto-restore-refinish-or-not-original-condition-vs-neglect%2F&id=11725&page=1&totalpages=1&index=8&_wpnonce=47ab6c25b6' data-label='Print Options' data-width='400' data-height='0' data-align='center'><img class='spIcon' src='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/reboot/images/sp_Print.png' alt='sp_Print' /> </a></div><div class='spPostContentSection'><div id='spPostIndexContent80825' class='spPostContent'><p>Just wait awhile. As all these old timers sell their collections, or their heirs do, and there is not as much interest amongst younger collectors, because there are far fewer of them, simple demand vs supply suggests values have nowhere to go but down. We are already starting to see the beginning of this.</p> </div></div><div style='clear: both;height:1px'></div></div></div><div class='spTopicPostSection spOdd spType-User spRank-member spUsergroup-waca-guest spUserPost' id='eachPost80849'><a id='p80849'></a><div class='spUserSection spLeft' id='spColTopic1964043573' style='min-height: 50px'><div class='spPlainSection'><div class='spPostUserAvatar spCenter'><img src='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-avatars/1461011303lucas-mccain.jpg' class='spAvatar' style='max-width: 50px' alt='Avatar' /></div><div id='spPostIndexUserName80849' class='spPostUserName spCenter'>Patrick</div><div id='spPostIndexUserLocatin80849' class='spPostUserLocation spCenter'>South Tx</div><div id='spPostIndexUserRank80849' class='spPostUserRank spCenter'><span class="spRank-member">Member</span></div><div id='spPostIndexUserMemberships80849' class='spPostUserMemberships spCenter'><span class="spUserGroup-waca-guest">WACA Guest</span><br /></div><div id='spPostIndexUserPosts80849' class='spPostUserPosts spCenter'>Forum Posts: 105</div><div id='spPostIndexUserRegistered80849' class='spPostUserRegistered spCenter'>Member Since:<br /> April 18, 2016</div><div id='spPostIndexUserStatus80849' class='spCenter spPostUserStatus'><span class='spPostUserStatusOffline'><img class='spIcon' src='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/reboot/images/lightpack/sp_UserOfflineSmall.png' alt='sp_UserOfflineSmall' /> Offline</span></div></div><div class='spCenter'></div></div><div class='spPostSection spRight' id='spColTopic22513591013' style='min-height: auto'><div class='spPostActionSection'><span id='spPostIndexNumber80849' class='spLabelBordered spLeft'>9</span><div id='spPostIndexUserDate80849' class='spPostUserDate spLeft'>April 8, 2019 - 4:22 am</div><a class='spButton spLeft' id='spPostIndexPermalink80849' title='The post permalink' rel='nofollow' href='https://winchestercollector.org/forum/restoration-repair-and-maintenance/to-restore-refinish-or-not-original-condition-vs-neglect/#p80849'><img class='spIcon' src='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/reboot/images/sp_Permalink.png' alt='sp_Permalink' /> </a><a class='spButton spLeft spOpenDialog' id='spPostIndexPrint80849' title='Print this post' rel='nofollow' data-site='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php?action=print&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwinchestercollector.org%2Fforum%2Frestoration-repair-and-maintenance%2Fto-restore-refinish-or-not-original-condition-vs-neglect%2F&id=11725&page=1&totalpages=1&index=9&_wpnonce=47ab6c25b6' data-label='Print Options' data-width='400' data-height='0' data-align='center'><img class='spIcon' src='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/reboot/images/sp_Print.png' alt='sp_Print' /> </a><a class='spButton spLeft spEditPostHistory' id='spPostIndexEditHistory80849' title='View edit history' rel='nofollow' data-html='<p>Edited by Patrick on April 8, 2019 - 4:24 am<br /></p>' data-label='View edit history' data-width='400' data-height='0' data-align='0'><img class='spIcon' src='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/reboot/images/sp_EditHistory.png' alt='sp_EditHistory' /> </a></div><div class='spPostContentSection'><div id='spPostIndexContent80849' class='spPostContent'><p>I’ve been told repeatedly by my father, his freinds, and others. Winchesters will never go down, Colts, parkers, etc…..L.C. Smith’s arent bringing but about half of blue book value it seems. I’ve been sworn to winchesters are as solid as a Rolex which btw seem to be at an all time high? I just dont believe the flood gates will open. Leak maybe…. When there is nothing to buy but junk, interest is down. Carry a nice rifle thru the show and you wont be able to shop. 15 winchesters at the San Antonio show this weekend 13 were straight junk. Barrels changed, home made stocks, cut-0ff barrels etc…. yea no one is intrested in buying that stuff. Nice guns rarely come thru, if they do dealers buy them and are never to hit the table, just poof…. I hope the bottom drops out And I can own a 100 of them for about 50k. 86’s, 92’s, 4’s and 5’s</p> <p>?‍♂️</p> </div></div><div style='clear: both;height:1px'></div></div></div></div></div><div class='spHiddenSection'></div></div></div><div class='spFootContainer'><div class='spPageLinksBottom'><div id='spPostNewButtonBottom'></div><div class='spPageLinks spPageLinksBottom'></div><div style='clear: both;height:1px'></div></div><div class='spPlainSection'><div style='clear: both;height:1px'></div><span id='sp_OpenCloseControl' class='spButton spOpenClose' data-targetid='spStatsSectionId' data-tagid='sp_OpenCloseControl' data-tagclass='spIcon' data-openicon='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/reboot/images/lightpack/sp_ControlOpen.png' data-closeicon='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/reboot/images/lightpack/sp_ControlClose.png' data-tipopen='View Statistics' data-tipclose='Close Statistics' data-setcookie='1' data-label='0' data-linkclass='spButton'><img class='spIcon' title='Close Statistics' src='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/reboot/images/lightpack/sp_ControlClose.png' alt='' /></span><a class='spLeft spAllRSSButton' id='spAllRSSButton' title='Subscribe to the all forums RSS feed' rel='nofollow' href='https://winchestercollector.org/forum/rss/'><img class='spIcon' src='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/reboot/images/lightpack/sp_Feed.png' alt='sp_Feed' /> </a><div class='spRight spGoToTop'><a class='spRight spGoToTop' href='#spForumTop'><img class='spIcon' src='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/reboot/images/lightpack/sp_ArrowUp.png' alt='Go to top' title='Go to top' /> </a></div><div class='spBreakBottom'></div><div class='spClear'></div></div><div class='spStatsSection' id='spStatsSectionId'><div class='spTimeZoneBar'><div class='spForumTimeZone spLeft'><span class="spTimeZoneLabel">Forum Timezone: </span>UTC 0</div><div class='spClear'></div></div><div style='clear: both;height:1px'></div><div class='spColumnSection spLeft spOnlineStats' style='width: auto;min-height: auto'><div class='spMostOnline'><span class='spMostClassLabel'>Most Users Ever Online: </span><span class='spMostClassData'>4623</span></div><div class='spCurrentOnline'><span class='spCurrentClassLabel'>Currently Online: </span><span class='spOnlineUser spType-User spRank-member spUsergroup-waca-member'>cj57</span>, <span class='spOnlineUser spType-User spRank-member spUsergroup-waca-member'>426crown</span>, <span class='spOnlineUser spType-User spRank-member spUsergroup-waca-member'>Green River Gus</span>, <span class='spOnlineUser spType-User spRank-member spUsergroup-waca-guest'>SureShot</span>, <span class='spOnlineUser spType-User spRank-member spUsergroup-waca-guest'>Noah Hutchens</span><div class='spGuestsOnline'><span class='spGuestsClassLabel'>Guest(s) </span><span class='spGuestsClassData'>21</span></div></div><div class='spCurrentBrowsing'><span class='spCurrentBrowsingLabel'>Currently Browsing this Page: </span><br />1 <span class='spOnlineUser spType-Guest'>Guest(s)</span></div><div style='clear: both;height:10px'></div><div style='clear: both;height:1px'></div></div><div class='spColumnSection spRight spTopPosterStats' style='width: 25%;min-height: auto'><div class='spTopPosterStatsTitle'>Top Posters: </div><div class='spPosterStats'>clarence: 7119</div><div class='spPosterStats'>TXGunNut: 6413</div><div class='spPosterStats'>Chuck: 5820</div><div class='spPosterStats'>steve004: 5177</div><div class='spPosterStats'>1873man: 4701</div><div class='spPosterStats'>deerhunter: 2696</div><div class='spPosterStats'>Big Larry: 2550</div><div class='spPosterStats'>twobit: 2497</div><div class='spPosterStats'>mrcvs: 2196</div><div class='spPosterStats'>Maverick: 2035</div></div><div class='spColumnSection spRight spMembershipStats' style='width: 20%'><div class='spNewMembersTitle'><span class='spNewMembersTitle'>Newest Members: </span></div><div class='spPosterStats'>Winchesterman</div><div class='spPosterStats'>RonHSE</div><div class='spPosterStats'>nmlittlebigman</div><div class='spPosterStats'>Brewcrew602</div><div class='spPosterStats'>Wheelies</div><div class='spPosterStats'>Tburk2012</div><div class='spPosterStats'>G.H. 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value='https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-military-arms/winchester-model-1200-trench-guns-from-the-vietnam-era/#p167309'>Winchester Model 1200 TRENCH GUNS - from…</option></optgroup><optgroup class='spList' label='Winchester Hunting, Shooting & Reloa…'><option class='spPostRead' title='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/reboot/images/sp_QLBalloonNone.png' value='https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-hunting-shooting-reloading/highwall-in-45-ex/page-3/#p167295'>Highwall in 45 EX</option></optgroup><optgroup class='spList' label='Winchester Swap Meet'><option class='spPostRead' title='https://winchestercollector.org/wp-content/sp-resources/forum-themes/reboot/images/sp_QLBalloonNone.png' value='https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-swap-meet/fs-14-w-r-a-co-45-70-cartridges/#p167310'>FS: 14 “W. R. A. 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