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This is an interesting discussion on the merits of “patina,” “original condition,” and what is truly a collectors’ condition firearm vs one that has been neglected to the point of deteriorating or possibly becoming unsafe.
Does refinishing hurt value, or preserve a firearm for future generations? It depends on a whole bunch of factors, but this video makes some valid arguments.
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All men have fears. The brave put down their fears and go forward, sometimes to death but always to victory.
Old guns are like old cars and old men. They are meant to be taken out and used from time to time, not locked away or put on display in a museum.
I’d also thing it depends on what your definition of “collecting” is. There are plenty of guys that love to collect genuine Relic firearms. And Relics by the very definition have been neglected.
Sincerely,
Maverick
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Maverick said
There are plenty of guys that love to collect genuine Relic firearms. And Relics by the very definition have been neglected.Sincerely,
Maverick
I resemble that remark!
November 7, 2015
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Another definition that varies by user/collector is “maintenance”. A good example is an oil-finished stock on a heavily used but not abused shotgun or rifle. Good maintenance IMHO includes refreshing or reapplying oil to the wood from time to time. Some may confuse this with “refinishing” or may feel that I’m wrong when I consider it maintenance. Another situation is years of caked-on grime, grease and oil. Some think we should not disturb it, others believe we should gently clean it down to the original finish. I even think there will come a time when a vintage rifle with a good quality refinish job will have significant collector value. That may already be the case with some collectors, with others it never will. The gunsmith in the video makes some good points but a fair part of his business is apparently refinishing. I suspect there are a lot more refinished guns out there than we realize; I’ve seen guns that I know are refinished that appear original.
Mike
TXGunNut said
Another definition that varies by user/collector is “maintenance”. A good example is an oil-finished stock on a heavily used but not abused shotgun or rifle. Good maintenance IMHO includes refreshing or reapplying oil to the wood from time to time. Some may confuse this with “refinishing” or may feel that I’m wrong when I consider it maintenance. Another situation is years of caked-on grime, grease and oil. Some think we should not disturb it, others believe we should gently clean it down to the original finish. I even think there will come a time when a vintage rifle with a good quality refinish job will have significant collector value. That may already be the case with some collectors, with others it never will. The gunsmith in the video makes some good points but a fair part of his business is apparently refinishing. I suspect there are a lot more refinished guns out there than we realize; I’ve seen guns that I know are refinished that appear original.
Mike
The problem with caked-on grime is what it may hide underneath. IMO, that *is* neglect. Firearms are a mechanical device that can become unexpectedly dangerous from neglect.
I personally like the ‘smith’s approach of not letting an unsafe firearm remain so. I suspect if his business does involve a lot of refinishing, it’s because his customers understand the difference between a true collectable in top condition and a worn or neglected firearm that needs some attention to preserve its form and function. We as firearm owners have a responsibility to maintain them beyond the occasional wipe down.
All men have fears. The brave put down their fears and go forward, sometimes to death but always to victory.
Old guns are like old cars and old men. They are meant to be taken out and used from time to time, not locked away or put on display in a museum.
November 7, 2015
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I agree with your position on caked-on grime, J B. I bought a very early 1894 at the 2017 Cody show in exactly the condition you describe. I was able to remove the grime and underlying surface rust before it caused more than minor damage to the finish. The bluing is a bit thin in those spots but still present and not pitted. If I’d left it “as-is” it would have been severely damaged within a few years.
I suppose I’m younger than the average member here. I know that a refinished gun will never be collected to the extent of a high grade high condition gun. But as time goes on this may be the only opportunity for the average guy or younger fiscally challenged individual to own a nice example. Like cars, watches etc.. They will never be original but will have a value over a poor original condition gun.
Just wait awhile. As all these old timers sell their collections, or their heirs do, and there is not as much interest amongst younger collectors, because there are far fewer of them, simple demand vs supply suggests values have nowhere to go but down. We are already starting to see the beginning of this.
I’ve been told repeatedly by my father, his freinds, and others. Winchesters will never go down, Colts, parkers, etc…..L.C. Smith’s arent bringing but about half of blue book value it seems. I’ve been sworn to winchesters are as solid as a Rolex which btw seem to be at an all time high? I just dont believe the flood gates will open. Leak maybe…. When there is nothing to buy but junk, interest is down. Carry a nice rifle thru the show and you wont be able to shop. 15 winchesters at the San Antonio show this weekend 13 were straight junk. Barrels changed, home made stocks, cut-0ff barrels etc…. yea no one is intrested in buying that stuff. Nice guns rarely come thru, if they do dealers buy them and are never to hit the table, just poof…. I hope the bottom drops out And I can own a 100 of them for about 50k. 86’s, 92’s, 4’s and 5’s
?♂️
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