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What New Hell is This?
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May 27, 2024 - 12:27 am
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Louis Luttrell said
FWIW… In my very limited “non-Winchester” collecting experience, I do have one of the Colt Woodsman pistols that flew on nuclear bombers in the late 1940’s…  They were sealed in a tin container with other survival supplies/equipment that was to be opened only in the event of a bomber going down north of the Arctic Circle.  Made by Colt to US Air Force specs, it differs in a few details from the commercial product (and, yes, my gun “letters”)…  But a 22 rimfire for “foraging” on a US Nuclear Bomber???  Good for Snowshoe Hares, but not Polar Bears!!!

I used to shoot & collect these, but never heard of this variation.  Highly as I regard them, I’d damn sure prefer the M6 over & under, which I thought was the standard AF survival weapon.   

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May 27, 2024 - 3:34 am
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Hi Clarence-

If it’s not too much an affront to WACA Forum policy, I’ll post a pic of the gun and copy of the Colt letter once we get clear of the Memorial Day Holiday..  I have a WACA member coming to visit tomorrow and we’re hopefully having a steak cookout (weather/tornados permitting)… Laugh

These guns were circa 1948 and flew on stuff like the B36 and B47 bombers (I might have those aircraft models wrong since I’m not “fact checking” myself at the moment).  But before the B52s… The combo .22 LR/410 gauge “survival” guns came a bit later. 

These pistols were basically the standard Colt WOODSMAN Target model, except for fixed sights, no magazine disconnect safety (otherwise standard on 2nd series Woodsman pistols), a lanyard loop, and no provision for attaching the grip extension…  When found (which is not often) they tend to be in real good shape, as they spent their “service life” sealed in tin cans (like sardines)… Laugh

Lou

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May 27, 2024 - 12:29 pm
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Underwhelmed as to the featured Marlin.

 

I do have a pre-war Model 71 in 450 Alaskan, with the modified original barrel-quite balanced and accurate. Took a running coyote…

so a moving big bear should take notice.  PETA in the northern dark woods.

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May 27, 2024 - 1:26 pm
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Louis Luttrell said

These guns were circa 1948 and flew on stuff like the B36 and B47 bombers (I might have those aircraft models wrong since I’m not “fact checking” myself at the moment).  But before the B52s… The combo .22 LR/410 gauge “survival” guns came a bit later.  

There’s a B-47 on display at the former Plattsburgh SAC base 40 m from here.  If I could get inside, maybe they overlooked removing the sardine can?  Most beautiful bomber that ever flew.

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May 27, 2024 - 2:49 pm
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Louis Luttrell said
Hi Clarence-

If it’s not too much an affront to WACA Forum policy, I’ll post a pic of the gun and copy of the Colt letter once we get clear of the Memorial Day Holiday..  I have a WACA member coming to visit tomorrow and we’re hopefully having a steak cookout (weather/tornados permitting)… Laugh

These guns were circa 1948 and flew on stuff like the B36 and B47 bombers (I might have those aircraft models wrong since I’m not “fact checking” myself at the moment).  But before the B52s… The combo .22 LR/410 gauge “survival” guns came a bit later. 

These pistols were basically the standard Colt WOODSMAN Target model, except for fixed sights, no magazine disconnect safety (otherwise standard on 2nd series Woodsman pistols), a lanyard loop, and no provision for attaching the grip extension…  When found (which is not often) they tend to be in real good shape, as they spent their “service life” sealed in tin cans (like sardines)… Laugh

Lou

  

I’ve heard of these ‘survival’ Colt Woodsman, but have never seen one. I look forward to your photos. Meanwhile, I’m off to the safe to check mine for lanyard loopsSmile.  Not likely.

Nevada Paul

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May 27, 2024 - 3:50 pm
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Louis Luttrell said
I expect to be laughed off stage… Laugh This is FUN, right!!!

I would actually like to have one of the Marlin 1895 “dark rifle” guns. Only thing better would be if it were a takedown with the Picatinny rail affixed to the barrel section.  If I lived in AK and had a bush plane (neither of which it the case), it seems to me like the perfect gun to stuff behind the pilot’s seat in the event of an unfortunate (but survived) downing. 

guns:https://www.marlinfirearms.com/s/model_70901/

The 45-70 loaded to what a strong action would take could be a pretty effective “bear defense” weapon, and the lever action works with the cartridge better than anything you can do with an AR platform or bolt gun. Like 450 Alaskan in the M71. The Ruger Single Shot in 45-70 (where it can be loaded close to 458 WIN MAGNUM) is great, but the lever action gives more/quicker shots…  So I’d want to go either with 450Fuller’s gun or one of these…

Yes… I understand and agree that the marketing strategy here is based on some kind of “retro-cool” factor, not practicality.  But still…  It could be just the “right gun”, especially if a takedown and stainless…

FWIW… In my very limited “non-Winchester” collecting experience, I do have one of the Colt Woodsman pistols that flew on nuclear bombers in the late 1940’s…  They were sealed in a tin container with other survival supplies/equipment that was to be opened only in the event of a bomber going down north of the Arctic Circle.  Made by Colt to US Air Force specs, it differs in a few details from the commercial product (and, yes, my gun “letters”)…  But a 22 rimfire for “foraging” on a US Nuclear Bomber???  Good for Snowshoe Hares, but not Polar Bears!!!

I’ve also been musing about Clarence’s “bayonet” comment…  I think I’d skip it, b/c under the circumstances I envision, if I get into bayonet range I’m probably already bear meat!!!  But maybe he has a point (pun intended)… LaughLaughLaugh

Happy Memorial Day!!!

Lou

  

Lou – you make a good point.  There are many pragmatic uses for some of these, “modern” developments.  For example, walnut is not the best choice for wet weather conditions.  And there are various barrel materials and finishes/coatings that stand up better than the vintage blued steel we have all come to love.  

I have never heard of that version of the Woodsman you have.  It sounds super rare and super interesting.  I’ll bet if RIA had it, they would heavily promote it and it would do very well.  It’s also quite the, “crossover” piece as Colt and military collectors would be like moths to a lightbulb.  

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May 28, 2024 - 2:42 pm
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This is for Clarence –

Begging the Admin’s forgiveness for posting images of a Hartford CT product instead of something made in Hew Haven… Embarassed

The letter is probably more interesting than the handgun itself, which looks pretty much like any other 2nd series WOODSMAN Target except for the fixed sights and the absence of a slide stop and grip extension (or D&T hole in the backstrap for attaching one).  The letter gives enough of the story of these (925) Arctic Survival Kit pistols, except that IIRC they were eventually surplussed and sold to the public via DCM.

65182-S-letter-copy.jpgImage Enlarger65182-5-left.jpgImage Enlarger65182-S-right.jpgImage Enlarger

Hope everyone had a great Memorial Day!!! Laugh

Lou

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May 28, 2024 - 2:52 pm
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Louis Luttrell said
This is for Clarence –

Begging the Admin’s forgiveness for posting images of a Hartford CT product instead of something made in Hew Haven… Embarassed

The letter is probably more interesting than the handgun itself, which looks pretty much like any other 2nd series WOODSMAN Target except for the fixed sights and the absence of a slide stop and grip extension (or D&T hole in the backstrap for attaching one).  The letter gives enough of the story of these (925) Arctic Survival Kit pistols, except that IIRC they were eventually surplussed and sold to the public via DCM.

65182-S-letter-copy.jpgImage Enlarger65182-5-left.jpgImage Enlarger65182-S-right.jpgImage Enlarger

Hope everyone had a great Memorial Day!!! Laugh

Lou

  

Good Stuff Lou

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May 28, 2024 - 4:34 pm
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Louis Luttrell said
 

The letter is probably more interesting than the handgun itself, which looks pretty much like any other 2nd series WOODSMAN Target except for the fixed sights and the absence of a slide stop and grip extension (or D&T hole in the backstrap for attaching one).  The letter gives enough of the story of these (925) Arctic Survival Kit pistols, except that IIRC they were eventually surplussed and sold to the public via DCM.

65182-S-letter-copy.jpgImage Enlarger65182-5-left.jpgImage Enlarger65182-S-right.jpgImage Enlarger

Lou

  

 

Lou,

VERY cool, I want one!

Best Regards,

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May 28, 2024 - 4:49 pm
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Louis Luttrell said
The letter is probably more interesting than the handgun itself, which looks pretty much like any other 2nd series WOODSMAN Target except for the fixed sights and the absence of a slide stop and grip extension (or D&T hole in the backstrap for attaching one).  The letter gives enough of the story of these (925) Arctic Survival Kit pistols, except that IIRC they were eventually surplussed and sold to the public via DCM.

 

Was curious why AF didn’t order the Sport model if a fixed rear sight was desired, but the Sport model in ’48 had the same adjustable sight used on the Target model.  Omitting the slide lock means shooter doesn’t know when last shot has been fired, unless he’s been counting them; doesn’t seem a good idea to me.  I’d bet many of these have changed hands without either party being aware of their rarity; I never obtained factory letters on any of the doz or so Woodsmans I’ve owned.

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May 28, 2024 - 5:32 pm
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Hi Clarence-

They did make a 2nd series Woodsman Sport with fixed sights and no thumbrest grips, as an alternative to the adjustable sight model.  I used to have one but sold it when I downsized my Woodsman collection.  I’ve only kept (14) 1st and 2nd series pistols.

I don’t know the rationale behind omitting the slide stop.  Maybe the thought that it might cause a problem in the harsh Arctic conditions where it was imagined the gun would be used (if ever)?  Omitting the magazine disconnect makes a little more sense to me, I guess, in that if you dropped the magazine in a snow bank and couldn’t find it a pistol with that feature would become useless.  

The only WOODSMAN pistols I’ve lettered are this one and a 1st series Match Target military trainer… 

JWA-

I don’t think these guns are “rare”, there were at least (925) of them shipped to USAF and they got sold off to the public after being surplussed.  Back when I paid attention to these I think I saw at least (3) for sale on GB, including the one I bought.  To Clarence’s point, most of the time the seller didn’t know what they were, you just had to recognize the atypical features.  I’m sure you can find one!!!

The good news is that the ones I’ve seen were all in excellent condition, as during their in-service time they were literally sealed in a container (“time capsule”) that was to be opened only in case of emergency.  Any wear on them, like the muzzle wear on the one I’ve got, was likely put there by whomever bought the gun as surplus.  Not like the 1st series WOODSMAN Match Targets that were used as WWII training pistols.  Most of those are beat up, worn out, or refinished…

Best,

Lou

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May 28, 2024 - 5:36 pm
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clarence said

Louis Luttrell said

The letter is probably more interesting than the handgun itself, which looks pretty much like any other 2nd series WOODSMAN Target except for the fixed sights and the absence of a slide stop and grip extension (or D&T hole in the backstrap for attaching one).  The letter gives enough of the story of these (925) Arctic Survival Kit pistols, except that IIRC they were eventually surplussed and sold to the public via DCM.

 

Was curious why AF didn’t order the Sport model if a fixed rear sight was desired, but the Sport model in ’48 had the same adjustable sight used on the Target model.  Omitting the slide lock means shooter doesn’t know when last shot has been fired, unless he’s been counting them; doesn’t seem a good idea to me.  I’d bet many of these have changed hands without either party being aware of their rarity; I never obtained factory letters on any of the doz or so Woodsmans I’ve owned.

  

I suspect the slide lock and other omissions were based on weight reduction.

Nevada Paul

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May 28, 2024 - 10:11 pm
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Louis Luttrell said
This is for Clarence –

Begging the Admin’s forgiveness for posting images of a Hartford CT product instead of something made in Hew Haven… Embarassed

Lou

  

Actually I can’t see having a Winchester rifle without the corresponding Colt pistol.  Like a Henry with an 1860 Army.  Or a Hotchkiss carbine with a Colt Calvary model.  You have to remember too that John Browning designed some of the first semi auto pistols and machine guns.  In all wars up to and including WW II the Winchester rifles were used along side of a Colt pistol.

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