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Not a Winchester. My friend has passed away and we are trying to figure out the maker of this rifle/carbine. He and I had talked about this gun in the past but my memory is terrible. Top of the barrel says Pat. Apr. 21. 1874. No other markings. I really don’t want to go through every page of a Flayderman’s
Chuck said
Not a Winchester. My friend has passed away and we are trying to figure out the maker of this rifle/carbine. He and I had talked about this gun in the past but my memory is terrible. Top of the barrel says Pat. Apr. 21. 1874. No other markings. I really don’t want to go through every page of a Flayderman’s
Doubt you’ll find it in Flayderman’s, but possibly in one of James Grant’s SS books, which I’ll look through. Many limited production guns never made it into Flayderman’s.
I have not held this gun in about a year. I am sure it is a lever gun. It may be a one of a kind. This could be the rifle used to get a Patent. US Patent 150,102. Frank Atwood Huntington and Alfred Swingle of San Francisco. My friend collected brass guns and had a hand full of experimental rifles. I know he told me the Manufacture but I don’t remember it being some obscure maker.
More and better pictures would be most helpful!
Reminds me of a Starr Rifle but need more details. Is it percussion cap or center fire? What does it look like with the lever operated?
Couldn’t find anything from the patent date, other than Sharps has a matching patent date for one of their rifles, and its not a Sharps.
Sincerely,
Maverick
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Chuck said
I know he told me the Manufacture but I don’t remember it being some obscure maker.
How much more obscure could it be?
In the first decade after the Civil War, there were SCORES of similar breech-loader patents filed by would-be inventors so deluded they thought they could compete against Win, Ballard, Sharps, Maynard, Rem, & other proven, successful breech-loader designs. Until seeing this pat, I assumed it was a SS, & Grant’s books show photos of over 2 doz SSs as strange or stranger than this one, produced in quantities ranging from 1 or 2 prototypes to maybe a few doz.
But this one, unlike most of the others I was referring to, is a repeater, which makes it very unusual. Winchester’s policy at the time was to try to squash any potential competition by buying up (or suing) other makers of repeaters, like Orville Robinson, who was successful enough to produce several hundred of his rifles. Would be highly interesting to investigate whether WRA knew of this patent. If so, it probably seemed too little a threat to worry about.
clarence said
Chuck said
I know he told me the Manufacture but I don’t remember it being some obscure maker.How much more obscure could it be?
In the first decade after the Civil War, there were SCORES of similar breech-loader patents filed by would-be inventors so deluded they thought they could compete against Win, Ballard, Sharps, Maynard, Rem, & other proven, successful breech-loader designs. Until seeing this pat, I assumed it was a SS, & Grant’s books show photos of over 2 doz SSs as strange or stranger than this one, produced in quantities ranging from 1 or 2 prototypes to maybe a few doz.
But this one, unlike most of the others I was referring to, is a repeater, which makes it very unusual. Winchester’s policy at the time was to try to squash any potential competition by buying up (or suing) other makers of repeaters, like Orville Robinson, who was successful enough to produce several hundred of his rifles. Would be highly interesting to investigate whether WRA knew of this patent. If so, it probably seemed too little a threat to worry about.
Thanks Clarence. This is more data than I found. My friend may have not really known who the maker was. He told me it was ??? which as I remember it was someone we would be familiar with. He had this habit of buying rare items and as we all know finding the right buyer is just as rare.
Chuck said
Thanks Clarence. This is more data than I found. My friend may have not really known who the maker was. He told me it was ??? which as I remember it was someone we would be familiar with. He had this habit of buying rare items and as we all know finding the right buyer is just as rare.
Why don’t you find out from Cody if there are records from the 1870s that refer to this patent. It would be proof that the company knew about it, but probably didn’t regard it as a potential competitor, or some action would have been taken–like buying the pat.
I’ve run into a few old collectors (now dead, all of them) interested in such weird designs, the stranger the better, but not many. In fact, I’d guess the number of “unknown” guns like this outnumber the people seriously interested in them!
Clarence this gun is going to be in an auction in March. I’ve relayed the info to the owner of the auction. She knows that I have carried this gun in and out of gun shows for years and asked me to help. We’ll just have to wait and see. I am also curious as to what other items are going to be in this auction. He has a lot of valuable stuff. I don’t think there are many guns left but a ton of posters, calendars and such. But like I said I don’t know how much of his things will be in this auction. Remember the Winchester gun case we talked about? He has 2 of these. I believe the one sold in the RIA auction sold for twice what they usually sell for?
Only additional info I found was a November 1962 The Gun Report “The Swingle & Huntington Rifle” by Tommy L. Bish. The rifle is on the cover.
Sincerely,
Maverick
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Maverick said
Only additional info I found was a November 1962 The Gun Report “The Swingle & Huntington Rifle” by Tommy L. Bish. The rifle is on the cover.
That was a good catch! But how did you find that issue? Is there an index? Gun Report was almost the only gun mag that would publish info on such weird, rare, sometimes one-of-a-kind, guns. That was because the mag depended for content on material submitted to them by the authors–publication was their “payment.”
Here are a couple more pictures. I contacted the Auction house and she said they had already ordered a copy of the Gun Report.
Chuck said
Here are a couple more pictures. I contacted the Auction house and she said they had already ordered a copy of the Gun Report.
And the inventors thought they could sell THIS in competition with ’73, or even ’66, Winchesters!
Gun Report went belly-up several yrs ago. How would a copy be obtained?
Yes, good catch! I will have to start browsing eBay more often.
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So, do I have this correct – this is a lever action repeater? Where does it load? Where are the cartridges stored? It looks like there is no magazine tube. A very interesting rifle.
steve004 said
Where does it load? Where are the cartridges stored? It looks like there is no magazine tube. A very interesting rifle.
Look at the pat drawings. “Interesting,” if you’re a fan of Rube Goldberg’s machines.
I just looked at the patent drawings now. I can see the cartridges work there way up from the rear – but it is not clear to me where they load. Through the butt? I would enjoy seeing a photo of the action open. I would also really enjoy working the action on this one to see exactly how it operates. Ideally, running some dummy cartridges through it would be very illuminating. I enjoy odd pieces like this.
steve004 said
I just looked at the patent drawings now. I can see the cartridges work there way up from the rear – but it is not clear to me where they load. Through the butt?
My guess is that they were pushed down into the mag when the action was open, by depressing the spring in the drawing. But again I say, how detached from reality would you have to be to seriously believe this monstrosity could compete against Winchester, Spencer, or even the obscure Robinson? I guess if you are obsessed with the urge to invent something new, you have to do it, regardless of the practical outcome, & the thousands of pats. granted for absurd inventions, never manufactured, let alone sold, prove it.
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