The origins of the .25-20 WCF cartridge |General Discussions & Questions|Forum|Winchester Collector

We’ve surely discussed this before.  

I have more than a few .25-20’s (Winchesters and Marlins).  I particularly like this cartridge in a carbine.  It’s a fun cartridge and the whole family can enjoy shooting it. With cast lead bullets, it’s very inexpensive to reload.

I was looking at a Winchester 1899 catalog page that featured the .25-20 Winchester M1892 and the .25-20 Marlin.  Visually, it appears the cartridges are not the same and I note during that time period, they were not considered interchangeable.  

Jim Foral, in his 2001 Gun Digest article, “John Barlow, The Ideal Man” recounts John Barlow and Ideal’s early involvement:

The early 1890’s success of the .25-20 Single Shot as a target and small-game cartridge stirred public interest in the quarter-inch bore and Ideal as kept busy ministering to the wants and needs of the .25-caliber smitten.  Barlow’s most valuable contribution was Ideal #25720, a flat-pointed projectile with square grease grooves.  In 1892, it stood on the cutting edge of lead bullet design.  The basic bullet could be had in a variety of weights ranging from 46-96 grain.  Immediately, the 77-grain length became popular.  The three dollar Ideal Perfection mould would cast each variation within a single mould and enabled its’ operator to put an end to the 25-caliber keyholing problems encountered by many in those days.

In 1893, Capt. W.L. Carpenter of Sackett’s Harbor, New York, conceptualized a long, parallel-sided 25-caliber target cartridge.  Hopeful of attracting gun-maker’s attention, he drew a rough pencil sketch of what he had in mind and managed to get it printed in Forest And Stream that May.  After a year of enduring the empty assurances of the people at Winchester, Carpenter turned to the rifleman’s friend.  At the Ideal plant, John Barlow fashioned a model shell from brass rod and sent the Captain over to the J. Stevens Arms and Tool Co.  With the sample case, and Barlow’s recommendations, he took up the matter with company officials.  The availability of Stevens rifles chambered for Carpenter’s 25-25-100 Stevens Straight was announced in mid-August, 1894.

During this 25-caliber craze, Marlin officials wanted a short 25-caliber for a repeating rifle they had in the drawing board stage. At their request, Barlow designed a compacted 25-20 S.S. on the 32-20 WCF case.  Marlin adopted the idea and became the first manufacturer to bring out a 25-20 repeater cartridge.

Presently, Winchester unleashed a nearly identical version for their new Model 1892 rifle. Dimensionally similar to the Marlin 25-20, the 25-20 Winchester Center Fire varied enough to preclude interchangeability.  The ballistic advantage using smokeless and an 86-grain bullet – 130 fps – belonged to the Marlin edition, but the W.C.F. number became much more accepted.  Winchester standardized cartridge and chamber specifications and the 25-20 Marlin faded into obscurity. The proper, popular choice of lead bullets for either case was Ideal’s #25720 in 86 grain weight.