Avatar
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
Rust bluing vs Browning
sp_NewTopic Add Topic
Avatar
San Antonio, TX
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 121
Member Since:
July 18, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
November 30, 2017 - 9:29 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

     I saw a M94 with a 3 digit serial number on the web today.  Wow very early serial.  The gun is a 38-55 caliber.  I noticed the barrel and receiver looks to be either rust blued or the process called browning.  I understand both are basically the same except with the rust bluing they would wipe the gun with steel wool between coats of the solution.  My question is why the bolt and the loading port spring cover looks to be a typical bluing color?  Did they preserve these using a different process?  Thanks for yall’s reply.         

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 6527
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
November 30, 2017 - 11:37 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Sounds to me you’re talking about a “brown gun” (partially), not a deliberately browned gun–big difference!  Have heard of a few custom gunmakers who offered browned guns (George Schoyen & the Freund Bros, among others), but no factories doing the same by the time ’94s were in production. 

Avatar
San Antonio, TX
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 121
Member Since:
July 18, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
December 1, 2017 - 1:02 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

The only reason I thought of the browning and rust bluing is cause Renneberg talks about it in his book.  This gun does not look like a bluing that has turned brown.  Not sure what this finish is on this gun.  

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 10986
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
December 1, 2017 - 2:25 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

On an early production Model 1894, the barrel was rust blued, and the receiver was machine blued. The loading gate should be nitre blued.

Please send me a link to the location where you found the subject Model 1894.

Bert

WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
New Mexico
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 1167
Member Since:
December 1, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
December 1, 2017 - 2:50 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

If you are talking about this gun:  http://www.gunbroker.com/item/711160099 over the years I’ve seen many Winchesters with brown patina throughout but very nice dark blue bolts, loading gates and triggers.  I don’t believe Winchester browned any of these but but, rather, that the parts that are still dark blue were of a different steel composition from the barrel, receiver and magazine tube.  This seems to happen mostly with pre 20th Century specimens.

1876-4-1.jpg

"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." 

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 6527
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
December 1, 2017 - 2:59 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Wincacher said
If you are talking about this gun:  http://www.gunbroker.com/item/711160099

A “brown gun” for sure.

Which I’ve always found rather unappealing…as opposed to a blued finish worn down to a “gun metal” or bare metal appearance, which I actually rather like, though “why,” I can’t explain logically.  

Avatar
San Antonio, TX
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 121
Member Since:
July 18, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
December 1, 2017 - 11:16 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

The gun is at this address:http://www.winchesterway.com/winchesters/model-1894/.  Its about half way down the first page.  Of course I have not been collecting long at all but I have never seen a finish on a gun like this.  Just curious and eager to learn.  Thanks for any info.

Avatar
San Antonio, TX
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 121
Member Since:
July 18, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
8
December 1, 2017 - 11:23 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I just looked on gunbroker and it is the same gun.  I’m curious about the price also, since their was no bids.  Is 3700.00 too much for this gun?

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 6527
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
9
December 1, 2017 - 1:49 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Winchester nut said 
Is 3700.00 too much for this gun?  

 No bids the first time it was listed.  Relisted and still none. 

Avatar
New Mexico
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 1167
Member Since:
December 1, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10
December 1, 2017 - 2:58 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Listed as SOLD so it is worth $3,700 to someone.

1876-4-1.jpg

"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." 

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 10986
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
11
December 1, 2017 - 4:00 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Winchester nut said
The gun is at this address:http://www.winchesterway.com/winchesters/model-1894/.  Its about half way down the first page.  Of course I have not been collecting long at all but I have never seen a finish on a gun like this.  Just curious and eager to learn.  Thanks for any info.  

The finish on that old Model 1894 is brown because it was not well cared for.  The descriptive term for it is “patina”.

Bert

WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
San Antonio, TX
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 121
Member Since:
July 18, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
12
December 2, 2017 - 3:36 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Ok.  So it was probably blued in the typical way and has browned out.  I just thought it looked like a different bluing.  So just because the gun is a 3 digit serial number and has the 10 o’clock screw does not make it valuable?  I’m just curious why no one bid on the gun especially since its such an early gun even if the gun is beat up.    

Avatar
New Mexico
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 1167
Member Since:
December 1, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
13
December 2, 2017 - 5:13 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Winchester nut said
 I’m just curious why no one bid on the gun especially since its such an early gun even if the gun is beat up.      

The gun has been sold.  Look at the winchesterway listing and you will see it says SOLD.  So someone did bid on the gun or bought it as a mail order item.

1876-4-1.jpg

"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." 

Avatar
San Antonio, TX
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 121
Member Since:
July 18, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
14
December 2, 2017 - 5:42 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Yes’sir.  I was wondering why there wasn’t a bidding war or more interest.  

Avatar
SO. Oregon
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 678
Member Since:
June 5, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
15
December 2, 2017 - 11:33 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

For some reason, Winchester’s in factory tern for rust bluing was ” browning”. Made no sense to me.

Vince
Southern Oregon
NRA member
Fraternal Order of Eagles

 “There is but one answer to be made to the dynamite bomb and that can best be made by the Winchester rifle.”

Teddy Roosevelt 

4029-1.jpg

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 6527
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
16
December 3, 2017 - 12:06 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Vince said
For some reason, Winchester’s in factory tern for rust bluing was ” browning”. Made no sense to me.  

Same usage at Springfield Armory, which is understandable considering that it was founded when “true” browning was still a widely used finish.  Less understandable in Winchester’s case, which never employed that process.

Avatar
San Antonio, TX
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 121
Member Since:
July 18, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
17
December 3, 2017 - 2:43 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Thanks for the info.  I’m still trying to figure out why this gun, with a 3 digit serial no. and the 10 o’clock screw is not more desirable and sold for only 3700.00.  Is there something about the gun that I’m not seeing that is an obvious flaw to yall?  I’m learning here so would someone explain to me why this gun did not get into a bidding war.  The gun sat with no bids for awhile.  

Avatar
San Antonio, TX
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 121
Member Since:
July 18, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
18
December 3, 2017 - 3:03 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I have considered buying this gun but now its too late.  Just wondering if that is a good thing or not?

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1773
Member Since:
September 22, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
19
December 3, 2017 - 5:19 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

$3700 was too much for this one due to condition issues.

Avatar
San Antonio, TX
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 121
Member Since:
July 18, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
20
December 3, 2017 - 7:59 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Thank you for answering.  What is a fair price?  I would have messed up on this one.  I thought it was valuable because of the 10 o’clock screw and the low serial number.  Also I’m after a 94 1st model with a low serial and this gun has that.  Sorry for all the questions but I just don’t know.  I’m reading and studying guns on the net trying to get halfway educated in Winchesters and their values.  So what do you think a fair price would be for this gun since it’s beat up.

Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 778
Currently Online:
Guest(s) 83
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
clarence: 6527
TXGunNut: 5197
Chuck: 4679
steve004: 4344
1873man: 4330
Big Larry: 2359
twobit: 2323
mrcvs: 1773
TR: 1732
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 17
Topics: 12931
Posts: 112789

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1793
Members: 8941
Moderators: 4
Admins: 3
Navigation