Repair tapped holes model 70 winchester|General Discussions & Questions|Forum|Winchester Collector

I still own the 1929.Model 92 25/20 rifle I found at a local gunshow. It has an immaculate bore but the wood and metal had been refinished badly. I asked a gunsmith of my acquaintance who is also a well regarded custom stockmaker and presently runs Beretta’s custom shop in DFW, to see what he could do to restore it.

Scott did his usual fine work: replaced all the wood, screws and pins, meticulously reshaped the steel to eliminate blurred edges. Restored a historically accurate level of polish and replicated original finishes closely. 

His hardest job was to weld up two holes d/td in the left receiver wall for a side scope mount.  Finding welding rod to match the steel alloy of the receiver almost drove him mad. When he was done and the gun presented, the overall appearance was subtle and as new. But if you turn the receiver in the light and look closely,  the faint outlines of the two holes can be seen under the blue, although you have to look carefully.

The restored rifle suited me perfectly and we did not case harden the buttplate, forearm cap, or the lever, so the work was not intended to fool anybody. 

If the gun had not otherwise needed refinishing, I would have been just as happy with plug screws. 

One of the satisfactions of owning this nice and quite accurate little rifle is knowing I saved it from being parted out. In its restored condition, whoever owns it in the future will likely take good care of it. 

But anybody who seeks to have extra receiver holes disappear completely despite the closest inspection — for venal purposes — is asking for a vacation in Club Fed. 

I wouldn’t pay the price of an”immaculate pair of 100% original Walker Colts personally ordered and owned by the Tzar of All the Russias” — without seeing some Magnaflux images first. EDIT: MAGNAFLUX IS ALSO KNOWN AS MAGNETIC PARTICLE TESTING AND CAN DETECT WELDS, SUBSURFACE CRACKS, ETC IN MOST FERROUS METALS, INCLUDING STEEL ALLOYS OTHER THAN STAINLESS HIGH NICKEL ALLOYS. XRAY IMAGING HAS BEEN USED IN THE PAST.

A con has to be developed by inducing panic and fear in the mark of losing a bargain.  A truly perfect con is analogous to jiu jitsu. The perpetrator does not push hard but gently encourages and organizes the mark to use his own weaknesses against himself until he cons himself into handing over his money. Later, the mark’s first reaction to his loss is stunned disbelief, not anger.  

Zebulon said
I still own the 1929.Model 92 25/20 rifle I found at a local gunshow. It has an immaculate bore but the wood and metal had been refinished badly. I asked a gunsmith of my acquaintance who is also a well regarded custom stockmaker and presently runs Beretta’s custom shop in DFW, to see what he could do to restore it.

Scott did his usual fine work: replaced all the wood, screws and pins, meticulously reshaped the steel to eliminate blurred edges. Restored a historically accurate level of polish and replicated original finishes closely. 

His hardest job was to weld up two holes d/td in the left receiver wall for a side scope mount.  Finding welding rod to match the steel alloy of the receiver almost drove him mad. When he was done and the gun presented, the overall appearance was subtle and as new. But if you turn the receiver in the light and look closely,  the faint outlines of the two holes can be seen under the blue, although you have to look carefully.

The restored rifle suited me perfectly and we did not case harden the buttplate, forearm cap, or the lever, so the work was not intended to fool anybody. 

If the gun had not otherwise needed refinishing, I would have been just as happy with plug screws. 

One of the satisfactions of owning this nice and quite accurate little rifle is knowing I saved it from being parted out. In its restored condition, whoever owns it in the future will likely take good care of it. 

But anybody who seeks to have extra receiver holes disappear completely despite the closest inspection — for venal purposes — is asking for a vacation in Club Fed. 

I wouldn’t pay the price of an”immaculate pair of 100% original Walker Colts personally ordered and owned by the Tzar of All the Russias” — without seeing some Magnaflux images first. EDIT: MAGNAFLUX IS ALSO KNOWN AS MAGNETIC PARTICLE TESTING AND CAN DETECT WELDS, SUBSURFACE CRACKS, ETC IN MOST FERROUS METALS, INCLUDING STEEL ALLOYS OTHER THAN STAINLESS HIGH NICKEL ALLOYS. XRAY IMAGING HAS BEEN USED IN THE PAST.

A con has to be developed by inducing panic and fear in the mark of losing a bargain.  A truly perfect con is analogous to jiu jitsu. The perpetrator does not push hard but gently encourages and organizes the mark to use his own weaknesses against himself until he cons himself into handing over his money. Later, the mark’s first reaction to his loss is stunnred disbelief, not anger.  

  

Bill – It seems there was a large amount of altruism motivating you to do this project?  It is a 25-20.  As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, I am old enough to remember when, “you couldn’t hardly give a .25-20 away.”  Times have changed of course.  But this project must have taken a large amount of gunsmith hours, which are generally expensive.  Would it not have been less expensive to simply purchase an original piece that was in nice condition?  Again, I read into your post that you wanted to save the piece from an unfortunate end (e.g. parted out).  

Zebulon said
Hi Steve.  I was younger then and less knowledgeable about where to go to acquire a nice original 1892. My collection interest at that time was Smith & Wesson revolvers and Colt double-actions. 

The 1892 was an impulse buy for — if I can recall  — $399 cash.  I shot and reloaded for it considerably before deciding to spend more money on it. It came with a  re-issued Lyman 1A and just needed a better front sight. Then it really started cooking at the range with both jacketed and cast lead stuff.  I grew quite fond of it despite its ugliness. 

The only other 92 I’d ever owned was a 25/20 carbine with a worn out, pitted bore I’d picked up cheap at McBrides when I lived in Austin.  It managed shotgun patterns. 

Years later, after I had a particularly good year and wanted to celebrate, I took my good-shooting rifle to Scott to celebrate. I knew he’d take forever but I’d seen his custom work and knew he was a dedicated artist. We talked it over and I left it with him. I think it was 18 months later when he called me out of the blue and I picked it up. His tab was only $700 for parts and labor, so what I have in the gun is $1,100.  He must have gotten minimum wage rate for his work. 

Bottom line, I don’t know what i could have got for that kind of money in 2010 or so, but it might or might not have shot as well as this one does. 1927 was the year non-corrosive primers hit the market and my barrel is marked “29”, which is I think why the little piece is a bell ringer. 

Not so much altruism as a mixture of ignorance plus a fondness for accurate turkey rifles!  I just had a video call with my grandkids that was interrupted by a bobcat seizing one of my daughter-inlaw’s chickens. I think i just learned who needs to inherit this 25/20.

  

Thanks Bill –

That fills in the story for me.  Had your gunsmith charged per hour what quality gunsmiths typically charge, you could have bought a heck of a nice ’92.  But, he didn’t

Zebulon said
No, and one of my regrets is I didn’t have enough in my poke to liberate the beautiful High Wall he’d built for a customer who flaked out on him by reason of death, divorce or possibly both. Scott displayed it for months in a glass case at Nix’s old store, along with a set of custom dies and tools.

It was chambered in .280 Ackley Improved and featured a long, medium weight Douglas barrel, rust blued, pins and screws fire blued, exhibition grade French Walnut elaborately checkered in a flawless, borderless 26 LPI pattern. Came with a set of replaceable front sights and a ladder tang sight. 

If memory serves, all he wanted was $4,800 USD.  Somebody eventually bought it, I suspect for less.  Scott’s work stands up well against any of the nationally recognized stockmakers, as long as you don’t want engraving, inlays of nubile maidens with bowls of fruit and sausages, et al.  What has impressed me about him is his versatility. He can actually repair guns, do metalwork, chamber and fit barrels, as well as make and checker, fit and finish stylish and closely inletted stocks. I can see why Beretta nabbed him. 

  

Agree.  I’m too old and with insufficient disposable income for sheep or Elk and I have no desire to hunt bears, even if I could afford to..

For the deer, hog and turkey hunting I’m likely to ever do,  I could probably get it all done with my Model 64 and the 25/20.  

Preserve pheasants and quail are another matter. And they furnish the dog. An afternoon’s pleasure and all it takes is some money. They clean the birds and take the dog home. (I found owning a bird dog is worse than owning a bass boat: a never ending cash outflow, plus the bass boat doesn’t pollute and dig up your back yard.)

As I recall Scott did quite a bit of journeyman gunsmith work for very reasonable prices in those days. I did not have any custom work done by him but knew he did a bit of it when time permitted. The only custom gunsmiths I’ve used paid the bills with normal repairs and upgrades, they did custom work because they liked doing it. I suspect Scott is the same. A gunsmith who specializes in custom work must get paid for the considerable hours involved and his work will be expensive. A gunsmith who can work on a project during slow times generally will not earn much per hour but enjoys the opportunity. The gunsmith I used built some of the finest IPSC 1911’s in the 1970’s and 80’s. He was also a Remington warranty repair center in addition to normal repair work. It would often take two years to have him transform an out-of-the-box 1911 into something useful but it was worth the wait. He was a bit quirky, as most good gunsmiths were. Two questions always went unanswered in his shop; “when” and “how much”. If you pressed him on the “how much” question he’d ask if you had a wheelbarrow. He never told you “when” because he didn’t know. I carried mine as a duty gun for much of my 25 year LE career. OTOH he occasionally got excited about a project. First time I went to PPC Nationals I thought I was going to shoot the whole thing with a stock 4″ 686, Lou built me a great Open gun with a few extra whistles and bells inside of 30 days.

To answer the question more directly; most good, formally trained gunsmiths can do the work described. Good luck finding one that will. 

Mike