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Hello to all you fine Winchester members.
I am so glad I found this website/forum. Maybe someone here can help me out.
I enjoy shooting my pistols. M&P FS 9mm, .40 S&W, and .357 SIG. I even have an M&P FS .40 with all 3 barrels. My favorite go to ammo to shoot is ANYTHING Winchester! But, lately, I have hit some brick walls with other shooting members. I have read several articles about when the PDX1 bullet first showed up on the market that it was, and still continues to be, a RANGER BONDED type bullet. It has been a conflict of interest among my friends online, my shooting members, and among myself and some family members. Some say the PDX1 bullet IS a Ranger bonded type bullet, and Winchester just used it instead of inventing a whole new bullet. And, some say it’s a new Winchester bullet. Can anyone clear this up and please tell me which is true? And, any information if it is, or isn’t.
THANK YOU!
Hello,
This website and forums are devoted to preserving and collecting Pre-1964 production Winchester firearms. While might have at least a few of our members that are familiar with subject you are inquiring about, the odds are against it. I will suggest that you find an “Ammo” specific forum, and inquire there. If you have questions about old school Winchester Cartridges, we can most likely assist you.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 7, 2015
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Not a huge fan of Winchester ammo but I do recall that the Ranger was, at one time anyway, a politically correct version of the excellent Black Talon bullet. From what I can see the PDX1 is probably an improved version of the Ranger but I haven’t kept up with the personal defense ammo market for some time. If you’ll pull and section a few samples I think you’ll get a clearer answer than you’re likely to get on forums populated by keyboard commandos.
Around here a hot new bullet is one that just dropped out of the mould.
Mike
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Talon
If you scroll down to the Current Status portion of the page, I believe it explains the situation fairly well.
I do miss those original Black Talon bullets. Killed quite a few deer with them, but really don’t know if they much a difference than a standard copper jacket.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
November 7, 2015
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Thanks, Maverick. As usual I was a bit fuzzy on the details. I carried Black Talons as a duty load in a .45ACP for several years and I’m pretty sure I still have a few mags of them around. I was a bit disappointed in their apparent performance on a hog awhile back but as it turns out he was simply dead on his feet and just hadn’t figured it out. Three or more good body hits and his internals were scrambled. He was running almost every time I shot him and I wasn’t leading him enough to break shoulders or hit the spine. They didn’t penetrate well enough to exit the “test medium” reliably so I quit carrying them. I very seldom use a carry gun on game so I don’t really have enough data to support that decision. That one event had a negative impact on my confidence in that bullet even though I know it’s a very good design.
If the Wiki article is right the new stuff is better than Black Talon but I suspect it’s based heavily on Winchester ad copy and gun rag reviews.
Mike
After BERT H. made his response I just figured no one else would respond. So, I went ahead and contacted Winchester, by email and phone. A tech. for Winchester told me that the PDX1 bullet is DEFINITELY a RANGER BONDED bullet. He also stated that the newer TRAIN AND DEFEND ammo, the DEFEND bullet is also a RANGER BONDED bullet, just loaded in a less recoil load than the PDX1 DEFENDER type bullet.
I came here asking my Q? because this is a Winchester forum and I figured someone here would know. I really don’t like calling the manufacturer because they are usually hush hush about this type of Q?’.
Winchester Customer Support
Winchester Ammunition
Customer: WXXXX RXXXXXXX ([email protected])
Address: XXX XXXXX XX #XX XXXXXXXXXXXX, LA XXXXX, US
Phone Number: 3XX-XXX-XXXX
Subject:
Submission Date: 6/19/2018 9:29:28 AM
Question: I read a story in SHOOTING ILLUSTRATED that RANGER BONDED bullets are loaded as PDX1 bullets. Is this true?
Answer:
Wayne,
That is correct, they are the same bullet.
Best Regards,
Technical Services Dept.
November 7, 2015
Offline
I’m sorry you were disappointed in the responses you received here, Wayne.
Mike
TXGunNut said
I’m sorry you were disappointed in the responses you received here, Wayne.
Mike
Mike, when I did a Google search I entered “Winchester Ammo Forums.” Your website was the very 1st choice. My experience with Google has led me to know the very 1st selection has the most knowledge about the subject you’re searching for, in this case, your Winchester website/forum.
I also own an old Winchester .22 pump that one day I will come here and ask about, if that’s okay.
Thank You, Wayne
MERRY CHRISTMAS to all.
For the last few months I have been doing ballistic testing on JHP bullets, the PDX1 being at the top of the list. I’m not going to go into great detail, just the facts. When Winchester discontinued the BLACK TALON bullet they needed a bullet that LE could use that would “STOP THE THREAT”, yet, not cause Winchester public humility like the BT did. Along comes the RANGER series. This is the improved version of the BT, with more expansion and better penetration. But, there are those that don’t like the muzzle energy, so along comes the PDX1 DEFENDER. It’s the same bullet as the PDX1/RANGER, just with less recoil. The regular PDX1/RANGER is the homeowners version of the LE RANGER series bullet.
So, there you go. IMHO, the PDX1 DEFENDER/RANGER ammo is the BEST JHP on the market for personal defense. If anyone is interested in this ammo, SGAMMO.COM has the PDX1 DEFENDER .40 S&W 180 gr. ammo in 20 rd. boxes for $7.95. 
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