[email protected] said
So I’m reading this Winchester website incorrectly on the serial numbers.  

Year 1896 – ending serial number #76,464

Year 1897 – ending serial number #111,453

So how could #88750 be July 1900.  Where are your numbers coming from, i want to get my facts straight.

 

Thanks for the help.  

The website you mention is not affiliated with “Winchester”.  The date of manufacture I gave you comes directly from the original Winchester factory records at the Buffalo Bill Historical Center of the West museum (CFM records office).  If you want the facts, contact the CFM records office – https://centerofthewest.org/explore/firearms/firearms-records/ and order a factory letter from them.

Bert

cwachter said
Bert, went back and read the law.  Can’t find any reference to a last serial number.  Here is what it states.

(g) Antique firearm The term ‘‘antique firearm’’ means any firearm not designed or redesigned for using rim fire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898 (including any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1898) and also any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

Now I wonder where the list I have seen was created?  Another question.  When were the records moved from Olin to the CFM?  I have a letter dated 1962 from Olin.  

Chuck,

The definition you posted above is not the actual text as listed on the BATF website, or in the Federal code.  Instead, it is someone’s personal interpretation of the U.S. Code.

Per U.S. Code Title 18, Part I, Chapter 44, Section §921, paragraph (16), an “Antique” firearm is defined as follows;

(16) The term “antique firearm” means—

(A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or

(B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica—

(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or

(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or

(C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term “antique firearm” shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.

end quote

I added the bold text and colored font to emphasize what the federal code states and means.  It was the NFA of 1968 (enacted in November of that year) that established what constitutes an “Antique” firearm.

As for the list you mention, it was not assembled or published by the BATF for the exact reason Mike mentioned… it would be a tremendous amount of effort and work, and with very little benefit to the BATF.  That stated, at least one BATF regional headquarter office has the Winchester Antique serial number cut-off list as published in the Red Book of Winchester Values. I was contacted back in 2007 by a Special Agent and in my discussion with him, I answered several specific date of manufacture questions for them, and also sent them an e-copy of the table below;

The Winchester records were transferred to the CFM in 1976 or 1977.

Bert

Chuck,

First, I did not state that it was YOUR personal opinion. 

Second, I disagree with you that the Title 26 Internal Revenue Code says the exact same thing as the U.S. Code Title 18.  Read both of them very carefully… the Title 26 of the IRC incorrectly lumps sections (A) and (B) of the Title 18 Code into the same paragraph when in fact, they are separate legal definitions.  If you were to strictly adhere to the Title 26 definition, a Model 1885 or Model 1873 rifle made for the 22 Short cartridge would not be classified as an “antique” regardless of when it as actually manufactured.

Bert