Factory records indicate 7,197 Standard carbines or 1.24% of total M70 production were manufactured by Winchester from 1937 thru the mid-1950 barrel clean up years. Chamberings…initially 22 Hornet, .250-3000 SAV, 257 Roberts, 270 WCF, 7M/M (Mauser),.30-06 and later 35 Remington.

Super Grade Carbines were never catalogued by Winchester. Although there are numerous examples out there all SG Carbines are to a degree suspect.

That said, I own 270 SG Carbine that is one of my favorite guns

Hi Chuck-

I don’t think that there is a PRECISE answer available to your question.

Roger Rule, in Table 3-8 of his book, states that there were EXACTLY 7,197 Carbines manufactured, equating to 1.24% of production.  The thing is Roger does not cite his source(s) of information, i.e. the “factory records” that Ted is referencing…  Maybe Ted’s seen them???  Is Roger counting only M70 Carbines made from 1936-1947 when they were cataloged (yes, Ted, they are in the 1947 catalog) or does it include the barrel clean-up Carbines made as late as 1954???  So Roger’s number is probably close enough for to get a sense of overall “rarity”, but without those source “records” I consider them an estimate… Like George Madis’ production numbers…  George didn’t often cite sources either… 

I have not (yet anyway) found ANY factory documentation of pre-war or transition M70 production recorded by STYLE, e.g. Carbine versus Standard rifle versus Super Grade, etc.  The few pre-war documents in the McCracken Library digital files that I have found are annual reports by either Model or Caliber…  Some are “Yearly Net Orders Received” by caliber, some are “Total Orders Received by Model, some are “Total Production“…  For the few years where all three sets of figures are available, they vary widely.  For amusement, look at this table I put together from “factory records”…  I can post the source documents or you can look them up in MS-20 in the McCracken Library.

As for the mythical “Super Grade Carbine”… They were never cataloged (no assigned Catalog Symbols) and would have been “Special Order” guns, i.e. individual orders processed separately from regular production orders.  The same table in Rule’s book says there were EXACTLY 13,283 “Specials” processed between 1936 and 1963. Of course this includes ALL individually processed special orders AND receivers maintained for R&R parts inventory.  How many of these were “Super Grade Carbines”???  Probably a few…  My GUESS is that more Super Grade Carbines have been put together outside the factory than were assembled within.  So without some kind of believable “provenance” they must all be considered suspect…  

Like Ted, I too have a “Super Grade Carbine” built (receiver) in 1948.  This one even has a “SUPER” marked barrel, which Mr. Rule says was done for a brief time in during the transition period to mark barrels that had specially lapped rifling.  I like this gun (nice caliber for a Carbine), but I doubt it’s authenticity…

Cheers,

Lou

Hi Bob-

This should interest you…  The National Match page from the 1941 WWSG&A full catalog.  Note at the very bottom, where it says “Other standard calibers furnished at no extra charge (except 375 H&H Magnum cannot be furnished)”…  One could (almost) argue that your 220 SWIFT National Match was a “cataloged special order”…   

I have seen a few National Match rifles in non-standard calibers (besides Wayne’s documented 264 WIN MAGNUM and 338 WIN MAGNUM Nat Match rifles) including 300 H&H MAGNUM and 7 M/M. Not sure if they were legit or not, but the 7 M/M was interesting b/c it also had a non-standard 26-inch barrel…  

What I’ve wondered is WHAT Winchester would actually provide if someone ordered a National Match in something other than 30 GOV’T’06.  As you know, the cataloged 30-06 National Match barrels had that special low front sight ramp and were D&T for a 0.470″ tall scope block…  The easiest thing for Winchester to do when filling such an order would have been to simply drop a regular barreled action (with standard front sight ramp and not D&T) into a National Match stock.  Your rifle, which has the scope block sounds interesting…  That’s what I’d hope the factory would have done.

FWIW… The availability of Bull Guns in other calibers was also advertised in the WWSG&A full catalog with the statement “Prices in other standard calibers furnished on application” on the Bull Gun page.  So you COULD order a Bull Gun in 22 HORNET if you wanted one, but it would cost you extra since they’d have to make a special 28-inch extra heavy barrel…

As far as the catalog summary…  The way I INTERPRET it is that Winchester received orders for only (17) M70s in 220 SWIFT in 1942.  How many 220 SWIFTs they manufactured, and in what styles, is something I have not found recorded (so far at least)… They might have had (17) 220 SWIFTs in the right style in inventory and made (0) in 1942…  Or they might have left the (17) orders unfilled???

What I THINK is that a 220 SWIFT National Match would have been a Special Order as indicated in the 1941 catalog above.  As such the order would have been processed as a single gun assembly order (not a regular production work order) and would not have been counted at all in the “Yearly Net Orders Received” summary, either for 1942 or 1946 as the report didn’t include “Specials” (this is stated in the document).  Rather, it would have been classified as a “Special”.  “Specials” were only included in the “Orders Received” by Model report that isn’t broken down by caliber. 

See what you can make of these pages…  That’s all I got…

Best,

Lou

Hi Bob-

The one I’d like to see (own) would be the National Match in 308 WIN.  These, along with a Target Model in 308 WIN, were specifically offered on Special Order in 1953-1954 only.  Read the “fine print” on this page from the 1953 Winchester Firearms catalog…

If there were ever a National Match in something other than 30-06 that came with the low Nat Match front sight ramp, I’d expect it to be one of these.  There is one pictured in Dean Whitaker’s book (photo 6-7) and I think MAYBE it has the low ramp, but the angle of the photo leaves me uncertain.  Since Winchester never routinely made standard contour barrels in 308 WIN (myriad fakes notwithstanding), 308 WIN Nat Match barrels would have been made in a special limited run.  So why not put the Nat Match ramp on them???  

As the Nat Match in other calibers listed as available on special order early on were not higher priced, I suspect they were just Standard Rifles (regular ramp) dropped into a Nat Match stock.  Maybe with the scope block added, like yours.

Best,

Lou

Always had a thing for the Carbines