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I have a quick question for the centerfire gurus and hoping that 1873man, Bert, Louis L., Seewin, et al will weigh-in.
I am tracing the lineage of the “Fig. 2” Stock Swivel Base – Complete for the Model 75 rim fire research I am currently doing. According to the Winchester drawings, this stock swivel base was first developed and used on the Model 1873. The drawings indicate its subsequent usage on the following models:
Model 1873 Musket
Model 1873 Carbine (I question this usage?)
Model Single Shot Musket (I assume that means the Model 87 but it is not referenced on the drawings)
Model 1886 Musket
Model 1886 Carbine (I question this usage?)
Model 1892 Musket
Model 1895 Musket
Model 1895 NRA Musket
Model 1907
Model 52 Target (52A, 52B and 52D are not mentioned but the 52C is specifically listed)
Model 52C Target with Standard, Heavy or Bull Barrel
Model 70 .30-06 and .308 Target
Model 70 National Match
Model 70 Bull Gun
Model 75 Target
Please peruse the above list and let me know if there are reference errors on the Winchester drawings (I suspect there are) and if there are any other rifles for which it was supplied as standard that are not mentioned.
Thanks for everyone’s help!
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
The list doesnt mention the 1876. On SN 63827, the same sling swivel is installed. It is a 45-75 PG H-checked deluxe with 7 leaf express and long range tang. If I remember correctly the letter doesnt mention the sling swivels. However, I have found 3 others in the same late SN range (2 with the same order number as this rifle) that have matching configurations. I have no reason thus far to believe its not original.
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
1892takedown said
The list doesnt mention the 1876. On SN 63827, the same sling swivel is installed. It is a 45-75 PG H-checked deluxe with 7 leaf express and long range tang. If I remember correctly the letter doesnt mention the sling swivels. However, I have found 3 others in the same late SN range (2 with the same order number as this rifle) that have matching configurations. I have no reason thus far to believe its not original.
Great info – thanks!
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
Don’t forget the 1876 Musket had them as well. I don’t recall if the carbine did, suppose it could?
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
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Perfect, thanks Maverick, I knew the drawings would be missing some standard applications.
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
Jeff,
All four variations of the Winchester Single Shot Muskets used the exact same sling mounts. Sling Eyes were used on the Rifle variations when a sling was special ordered.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
Jeff,
All four variations of the Winchester Single Shot Muskets used the exact same sling mounts. Sling Eyes were used on the Rifle variations when a sling was special ordered.
Bert
Great, thanks! At least that reference on the drawing was correct.
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
Any ’76 s.r.c’s I’ve had do not have sling swivels. I have all the pre 1900 lever Muskets except the ’86 and ’94, they all have the same sling mounts
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
Jeff,
Just curious when are the drawings dated? How many are you talking about? Had you not found drawings that mention the 76, but think the drawing(s) for it may have existed?
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
Maverick said
Jeff,Just curious when are the drawings dated? How many are you talking about? Had you not found drawings that mention the 76, but think the drawing(s) for it may have existed?
Sincerely,
Maverick
Hi Maverick,
I am currently researching the Model 75 which debuted in 1938 so I have only reviewed the later drawings as pertinent. They do reference the 1873, 1886 and 1895 so I would assume there should have been a reference to the 1876 Musket also but there isn’t. I have seen model omissions on many other drawings though so I am not surprised the 1876 Musket is missing and it is the EXACT reason I am reaching out to you guys because lever guns are not in my wheelhouse so I don’t know what else should be included in the list of standard applications. The Fig. 2 Stock Swivel was made from 3 parts so there are multiple drawings for the base, bows and pin, plus the assembly drawing.
Here are the drawings with dates I have reviewed:
1) No Dwg # Stock Swivel Base, no drawing date but drawing corrected to 11-2-17 (likely updated from an earlier drawing)
2) No Dwg # Stock Swivel Bow Pin, no drawing date but drawing corrected to 11-2-17 (likely updated from an earlier drawing)
3) Dwg #7300-8450 Stock Swivel Bow Pin, no drawing date but drawing corrected to 11-2-17 (likely updated from an earlier drawing)
4) Dwg #33377 Stock Swivel Base forging drawing dated 9-24-18
5) No Dwg # Stock Swivel Bow dated 11-4-35
6) No Dwg # Sling Strap Swivel Hook Bow for 1” and 1 ¼ ” Strap (initially for the 1873) dated 1-7-38 (likely updated from an earlier drawing)
7) No Dwg # Sling Strap Swivel Hook Bow for 1 ¼” (initially for the 1873) dated 1-7-38 (likely updated from an earlier drawing)
8) No Dwg # Sling Strap Swivel Hook Bow for 1 ¼” (initially for the 1873) dated 11-22-38 (likely updated from an earlier drawing)
9) No Dwg # Sling Strap Swivel Hook Bow for 1” (initially for the 1873) dated 1-7-38, retraced on 6-25-40 (likely updated from an earlier drawing)
10) Dwg #7300-8520 Stock Swivel Bow and Base Assembly (complete) redrawn 4-17-53
If you or anyone else know of other Stock Sling Swivel Base (Fig. 2) drawings (which I am sure existed) please let me know – Thanks!
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
Jeff,
I can tell you that the base itself was used on the Model 64/71 Deluxe, Model 54/70 Super Grades and the 52 Sporting models for the quick detach swivels. Of course these applications did not use the assembly, just the base minus the bow, locking pin and hole for locking pin. Also, the same basic base configuration was used on the barrel of the 458 African Super grade. This application required the deletion of the mounting holes and additional machining for the barrel contour.
Steve
Jeff,
I’m sure this maybe be obvious but may not to others. Based on the dates your showing of the drawings, I’m not surprised the 76 is not mentioned as the 1876 was basically obsolete and out of production by 1899. So I suppose there wouldn’t be much need to put it on said drawings. All the other models were being produced up to WW1 and beyond. So they would have been current models of production. Why annotate a part to be included on an obsolete model?
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
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Maverick said
Jeff,I’m sure this maybe be obvious but may not to others. Based on the dates your showing of the drawings, I’m not surprised the 76 is not mentioned as the 1876 was basically obsolete and out of production by 1899. So I suppose there wouldn’t be much need to put it on said drawings. All the other models were being produced up to WW1 and beyond. So they would have been current models of production. Why annotate a part to be included on an obsolete model?
Sincerely,
Maverick
Maverick, That makes perfect sense to me, I buy that premise.
What about the 1873 and 1886 Carbines? Is that usage correct as mentioned on the drawings? I don’t think I have ever seen a carbine with that style rear swivel but my exposure is limited for those models.
Thanks!
Jeff
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
Hi Jeff-
To add a few:
The Model 54 National Match, Target, and Sniper’s Match Rifles (all with Marksman stocks), along with the rare (but cataloged) M54 Sniper’s Rifle, all used that base with fixed 1 1/4″ bow on the butt stock. The National Match, Target, and Sniper’s Match Rifles used the same base/swivel in the fore end except that instead of wood screws they were held in place by two machine screws with round knurled escutcheons inlet into the barrel channel. The Sniper’s Rifle, which has more of a musket style stock, had a completely different front swivel arrangement.
Regarding the notation on the M70s, everything with a Marksman stock used that swivel with 1 1/4″ bow in the butt stock. The fore end, of course, had the inlet adjustable rail so was completely different. Even though the drawing only appears to have mentioned 30-06 and 308 WIN target rifles, it would apply to all cataloged chamberings: 22 HORNET, 220 SWIFT, 243 WIN, 250-3000 SAV, 257 ROBERTS, 270 WCF, 7 M/M, 30-06, 300 MAGNUM, and 35 REM. Oddly, given that it was on the drawing, there never was a cataloged Target Rifle in 308 WIN (no assigned Catalog Symbol), although they were briefly available on special order.
Hope this helps!!! 
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
Awesome, Lou!
Thanks to both you and Seewin, I knew you guys would know all the bolt action applications.
I will add them to the list on my end.
Thanks
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
Jeff,
Here is a Model 1886 Sporting Rifle with the sling mounts in question – Cowboy Gun – 1912 Winchester 1886 .45-70 – Lever Action Rifles at GunBroker.com : 890314037
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Thanks Rarebearcat and Bert,
I wonder if the rifles letter with that sling swivel?
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
JWA said
Thanks Rarebearcat and Bert,I wonder if the rifles letter with that sling swivel?
Best Regards,
My bet is that it will letter with sling mounts.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
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