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steve004 said
I was very struck by the amazingly high condition. Most of the things that seem too good to be true, are not true. However there are exceptions. Which is which? I take the cautious approach and generally move along to something else. It’s the playing the odds thing.
For those reasons, I would never seriously consider the purchase of Lot 101, unless I had it in hand, and then I still might be skeptical. You could shell out a lot of money for a very well refinished rifle…
It’s hard to imagine there isn’t some evidence of wear somewhere, if in its original state. If even stored on its metal buttplate there should be a minor scratch or loss of bluing…somewhere, I should think.
mrcvs said
For those reasons, I would never seriously consider the purchase of Lot 101, unless I had it in hand, and then I still might be skeptical. You could shell out a lot of money for a very well refinished rifle…
It’s hard to imagine there isn’t some evidence of wear somewhere, if in its original state. If even stored on its metal buttplate there should be a minor scratch or loss of bluing…somewhere, I should think.
These are the kind of guns that can drive a collector crazy. Give me something I know is right. I have a hard enough time falling asleep as it is.
Lot #101; Ya’ guys spread the word around that it’s probably a restored gun , then it’ll be less money when I’m bidding on it 
. I like it.
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
Henry Mero said
Lot #101; Ya’ guys spread the word around that it’s probably a restored gun , then it’ll be less money when I’m bidding on it
So, you are saying without a shadow of doubt you consider this rifle to not be refinished? Or, are you simply bidding on a rifle that may end up being determined to be refinished, and you consider it worth the risk or simply don’t care one way or the other, in the end?
I’m saying there is enough minor marks on it to say, in “My opinion” that it is a 98-99% original finish and condition gun, the case colors I.m not sure about. If it has been restored , it was done some time ago and intentionally marked up. Unless someone here can point out something obvious that I’m missing , I’ll be a bidder. As I said previously “I like it’ Now don’t go bidding against Me
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
Henry Mero said
…the case colors I.m not sure about.
Right! The lever probably should be more vibrant; the hammer, definitely so!
Henry,
Where do you see scratches or any blemishes, whatsoever? I certainly don’t see any, which is concerning.
This rifle was manufactured in 1909. At that point, future collectibility was not a concern. It had to be stored somehow over the last 113 years, and again, early in its existence, future minor scrapes and scars were not a concern. The most common way to store is on its butt. A rubber buttplate would not demonstrate as readily any wear as would a blued steel buttplate. If it had a rubber buttplate, I would be less concerned. Being a blued steel buttplate, I would expect to see, at the very least, thinned bluing somewhere.
Now maybe this was stored in a rack untouched for the last 113 years. Of course, that’s a possibility, but a bit remote for such a lengthy period of time.
mrcvs said
Henry,Where do you see scratches or any blemishes, whatsoever? I certainly don’t see any, which is concerning.
No offense, but are you blind? One of the barrel sets looks like someone tried removing it with a pipe wrench.
The only way to tell if its been redone would be holding in person. Good auction photos are helpful, but the photos on that auction aren’t exactly the best in my opinion. That said, based on what I’m seeing, the gun looks legit to me.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
Maverick said
mrcvs said
Henry,
Where do you see scratches or any blemishes, whatsoever? I certainly don’t see any, which is concerning.No offense, but are you blind? One of the barrel sets looks like someone tried removing it with a pipe wrench.
The only way to tell if its been redone would be holding in person. Good auction photos are helpful, but the photos on that auction aren’t exactly the best in my opinion. That said, based on what I’m seeing, the gun looks legit to me.
Sincerely,
Maverick
I was referring to Lot 101, the .38-55 rifle, only one barrel.
November 7, 2015
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steve004 said
I was very struck by the amazingly high condition. Most of the things that seem too good to be true, are not true. However there are exceptions. Which is which? I take the cautious approach and generally move along to something else. It’s the playing the odds thing.
Might be the real deal, hard to believe a 99%+ gun surviving 113 years in this condition. Nothing to show for it other than minor handling marks. Receiver likely benefitted from a higher level of polishing at the factory but I’ve seen that before on “Deluxe” guns. Bolt hasn’t even begun to wear on the rails inside the receiver.
I’m not bidding on it, Harry. I start getting nervous at about 90% and generally run out of money well before that. Good luck!
Mike
I did talk with Pat Redding on the gun , 101, and a couple others in the sale. He sent Me some real close ups of the various very minor marks here and there. We chatted for 20 minutes and He’s assuring Me the gun “in His opinion ” is legit. Now before We get our dander up I do realize He is the “Auctioneer”, but He did answer all My questions and backed up His answers with very detailed close up pictures. The only thing either one could not determine is the case color on the lever, it is worn on the inside and sharp edges and brilliant on the outer flat surfaces. Anyway I’ll let You fellas know how I make out. Question on lot 102 sights. When one reads the letter it mentions the flat top rear and Lyman Jack site, is that the 2 sites mounted on the gun Or?
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
This lot hammered at $52,000 and Lot 101, the .38-55 rifle, hammered at $20,000. Live, phone, or absentee bidding, NO buyer’s premium (only one if bidding over the internet). This is rare and commendable, so kudos to Redding Auction Service for this! Did anyone win one or both lots? Henry?
All the hype all week long about the Model 1894 with the 4 barrel set and the very nice .38-55 rifle immediately following it—and nary a whisper since the dust has settled.
Did anyone on the forum win either lot, or even bid on either lot at all?
Nope I didn’t get the one I was wantig , (Lot 101), I bowed out at $12,000.00. I guess a couple of other fellas Liked it as well. At $20000.00 that would translate into app $36,000.00 Canadian after all the expenses and $ exchange. I did get lot 302 , the 1876 case colored rifle and lot 449, a poor cond ’94 deluxe that I’ll likely part out. I also got a pretty nice ’94 deluxe over at Milestone Auctions lot 176. I bid on 30 some different pieces at Reddings , right from the green oil can and some other Win. memorabilia, and only got the two rifles. Things were going pretty good, (for the seller) that is. Had a fun day though. Did any one else on the site get anything?
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
I was at the sale. A nasty morning here in the East. I didn’t come away with any guns. I did purchase a brass Winchester padlock.
Mike
Hi Ian (mrcvs)-
I know YOU weren’t there b/c you told me!!! Working AGAIN I suppose… You need to give yourself a mental break and go do some collecting… 
I was planning to attend in person, as I am now located less than 90 miles from Gettysburg… But, as Mike said, the weather turned nasty and I chickened out… 
Anyway… Having decided not to travel, I did enter an absentee bid on Lot 50R, the M70 22 Hornet short rifle, a.k.a. carbine (S/N 13807). I think (???) that I won it, since I know Redding’s received the bid (confirmed on the phone Friday) and the lot sold for a fair amount less than my max bid. Waiting to see if I get a call saying I won and asking me to come pay and pick it up, but Pat (Redding) had another (non-gun) auction to do today so I’m sure their staff has been crazy busy all weekend…
LAUGH (at my expense) all you want… It’s true that pre-64 M70 carbines are a faker’s dream come true, and that 22 HORNET carbines seem to be a particularly favorite target… 
I’d never bid on one I couldn’t see in person, but I was up there last week dropping off a couple consignment pieces, and Pat let me handle all the Lots that I wanted to see. Anyway, having seen it, I think (???) that it is a good one, and the S/N (13807) is quite close to a couple other Hornet carbines recorded in the Bob Porter card files. So (I think) I at least know that Winchester did make a few Hornets (and Hornet carbines) around that time. FWIW… I have S/N 13532, which is a 250-3000 SAV Carbine that does have a Porter card (so for sure not a recent fake)… At risk of being sued, I’ll add that, IMHO, the 250-3000 SAV Carbine in the auction yesterday had “originality issues”… But maybe (???) the Hornet is a good gun (???)…
I agree with Henry that the prices, at least on the non-gun Winchester memorabilia, seemed strong (I watched via Proxybid). I’m not qualified to comment on the prices fetched by Winchesters that aren’t M70s… A big part, IMHO, is that Pat runs a No Buyer’s Premium auction (if bidding in person, via phone, or absentee) with No Reserve, so bidders have a much better idea what their bid will cost them. As Ian said, Kudos to Redding Auction…
My fingers are crossed…
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
I actually didn’t work Saturday, but the weather was bad, and so I didn’t go, either. Lot 101 finished strong at 20k, high to begin with, but even more so when, in my mind, at least, there may be some questions as to originality, and I wouldn’t bid on it unless I had it in hand.
Henry’s bid of $12,000 seems about right for it, IMHO, and, even then, with questions, perhaps a bit strong.
As already stated, this auction house has no buyer’s premium and maybe that’s why bids were high. Much to my surprise, maybe bidders DO take buyer’s premiums into account at other auctions and bid accordingly.
mrcvs said
I actually didn’t work Saturday, but the weather was bad, and so I didn’t go, either. Lot 101 finished strong at 20k, high to begin with, but even more so when, in my mind, at least, there may be some questions as to originality, and I wouldn’t bid on it unless I had it in hand.Henry’s bid of $12,000 seems about right for it, IMHO, and, even then, with questions, perhaps a bit strong.
As already stated, this auction house has no buyer’s premium and maybe that’s why bids were high. Much to my surprise, maybe bidders DO take buyer’s premiums into account at other auctions and bid accordingly.
I think you’re right about the buyers premium.
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