Avatar
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
Knurled hammer production.
sp_NewTopic Add Topic
Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 112
Member Since:
September 6, 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
August 21, 2023 - 12:49 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I watched a You tube video on knurling pattern on a gun barrel. Pretty interesting and straight forward. 

But given the technology of the day, in late 1800’s and early 1900’s, can anyone describe the process by which Winchester, or other gun manufacturers, were able to produce such perfect knurled patterns on the hammer. 

-Mike 

Avatar
Wisconsin
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4369
Member Since:
May 2, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
August 21, 2023 - 1:16 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I would say the later knurled hammers where stamps made by the engravers and put on while the hammer was soft. The early hammers with the real course pattern look to be cut.

Bob

WACA Life Member---
NRA Life Member----
Cody Firearms member since 1991
Researching the Winchester 1873's

73_86cutaway.jpg

Email: [email protected]

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 112
Member Since:
September 6, 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
August 21, 2023 - 3:49 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Thanks for that response. 

That would mean Winchester hammers were forged and not milled. I always thought all these parts were milled. 

Avatar
Wisconsin
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4369
Member Since:
May 2, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
August 21, 2023 - 4:11 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

You can stamp metal that has been milled, its done before its case hardened.

Bob

WACA Life Member---
NRA Life Member----
Cody Firearms member since 1991
Researching the Winchester 1873's

73_86cutaway.jpg

Email: [email protected]

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 11105
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
August 21, 2023 - 4:19 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

[email protected] said
Thanks for that response. 

That would mean Winchester hammers were forged and not milled. I always thought all these parts were milled. 

The hammers were made using forged steel that was later milled to exact dimension, polished, the knurling applied, and then color case hardened up to about 1914/1915. After that time the hammers were simply case hardened and blued.

WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 609
Member Since:
February 17, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
August 21, 2023 - 10:14 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I would love to see pictures from the factory production area. I am willing to bet the there would be several obi ( open back incline) presses there as that would make the most sense for applying knurling on hammers. It would have a bottom receiver die block to hold the part securely and the top die would be a stamp die to make the configuration. The part would be placed in lower die and operator would simply step on the treadle and engage the fly wheel and slam the knurling would be embossed it to said part. Just my two cents   

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1650
Member Since:
May 23, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
August 21, 2023 - 10:45 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

[email protected] said
Thanks for that response. 

That would mean Winchester hammers were forged and not milled. I always thought all these parts were milled. 

  

I’m in agreement with Bert. They were both Forged and then milled. Winchester apparently used both a Hot Forging and Cold Drop Forging method. They produced gages for both methods and the factory production drawings show this detail as well.

oldcrankyyankee said
I would love to see pictures from the factory production area. I am willing to bet the there would be several obi ( open back incline) presses there as that would make the most sense for applying knurling on hammers. It would have a bottom receiver die block to hold the part securely and the top die would be a stamp die to make the configuration. The part would be placed in lower die and operator would simply step on the treadle and engage the fly wheel and slam the knurling would be embossed it to said part. Just my two cents   

I haven’t found any specific pictures on the forging equipment / process as of yet, but hope to one day. I’d almost prefer to find the original drawings that showed how the process was done, but most of those are either destroyed or yet to surface from private hands. Maybe one day!

Model73HammerForgeDWG.jpgImage EnlargerHere is a 1917 forging drawing for the Model 1873 hammer. The black line is the exterior profile at forging with the red line showing the final dimensions for the profile after milling it. 

Sincerely,

Maverick

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments
Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 609
Member Since:
February 17, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
8
August 21, 2023 - 11:34 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Maverick, that sir is an excellent blue print/ shop drawing of the hammer. Drop forging is a rough process to basically bring a part to bear. The machining is the absolute fineness that brings said part to true form, as I am sure you are well aware. But I hope that folks can appreciate how hard it was back then to do all that given the type of machine tools available to the time. No such thing as nc or cnc back then. all was done by machinists and tool and die makers using hand crank lathes and mills, run by central shafting thru the plant! And yet they achieved the the design tolerances needed to mass produce these fine firearms. Today this stuff is drawn on a computer and run in machines that basically require a baby sitter to watch, periodically checking for tool wear and such. No disrespect to the hand crankers out there.      

Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 778
Currently Online: dane62, deerhunter, Dave M.
Guest(s) 52
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
clarence: 6651
TXGunNut: 5274
Chuck: 4737
steve004: 4404
1873man: 4369
Big Larry: 2382
twobit: 2326
mrcvs: 1804
TR: 1742
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 17
Topics: 13041
Posts: 114119

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1820
Members: 9006
Moderators: 4
Admins: 3
Navigation