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I have an 1885 takedown Musket Ser. #106368. According to the museum letter, the serial number was applied on Nov. 30, 1907. It was received in warehouse on Dec. 5, 1916. It shipped from the warehouse on Jan. 17, 1917. That tells me it sat for over 9 years before assembly! Does this seem strange to those who have access to the Winchester Records or is it just a fluke? The caliber is 22 L.R. Roger B
rogertherelic said
I have an 1885 takedown Musket Ser. #106368. According to the museum letter, the serial number was applied on Nov. 30, 1907. It was received in warehouse on Dec. 5, 1916. It shipped from the warehouse on Jan. 17, 1917. That tells me it sat for over 9 years before assembly! Does this seem strange to those who have access to the Winchester Records or is it just a fluke? The caliber is 22 L.R. Roger B
Roger I’ve done about 25 searches with CFM the last couple years & had a couple a few years apart but never had one with dates that far apart.
RickC
November 7, 2015
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Roger-
The 1885 I bought last year has a SNA date in 1903 so I was a bit concerned to see proof marks on it. Bert informed me that it arrived in the warehouse in August of 1907 so the dates in your letter seem a little strange but very plausible. One possible explanation is that a group of receivers was sent to the custom shop and it just took awhile for that receiver to make it to the assembler’s workbench. If your Musket has more than a few unusual features it may not be a regular production item and may have been built in the custom shop.
Mike
Roger,
For the Model 1885, your Winder Musket’s journey (time in the factory) is not the least bit unusual. I have seen many similar instances in the ledger records, and I own one rifle that had a similar extended stay in the factory;
S/N 106383, Take Down Sporting Rifle, 30 U.S.
PR date – December 2nd, 1907
Received in warehouse – May 15th, 1909
Shipped – February 23rd, 1919
This is the rifle…
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
TXGunNut said
Roger-The 1885 I bought last year has a SNA date in 1903 so I was a bit concerned to see proof marks on it. Bert informed me that it arrived in the warehouse in August of 1907 so the dates in your letter seem a little strange but very plausible. One possible explanation is that a group of receivers was sent to the custom shop and it just took awhile for that receiver to make it to the assembler’s workbench. If your Musket has more than a few unusual features it may not be a regular production item and may have been built in the custom shop.
Mike
Mike,
The receivers were not in the “Custom” shop, nor did the Custom shop assemble any of the Winder Muskets (with special order features). Production of the Model 1885 was relatively slow shortly after the turn of the century, resulting in a large stockpile of finished receiver frames. It is very common to find Model 1885 rifles, and 1st & 2nd variation Winder Muskets that spent multiple years in the factory after being serialized.
When Winchester received the U.S. Government order for the 3rd variation Winder Muskets (in December 1917), they began using up the excess stock of high-wall receiver frames. The earliest verified 3rd Model Winder Musket serial number is 67557 (PR date May 26, 1894) received in the warehouse on 6/21/1918, followed by 67673 (received in the warehouse 6/22/1918). In my ongoing survey, I have (169) 3rd variation Winder Muskets that are in the letterable serial number range (pre 110000), and more than (200) of them that have serial numbers preceding January 1918.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Thanks Bert. When you examined the Musket at the Reno show shortly after I purchased it your only concern was the fact it had a Winchester scope mounted on it. It was apparent the scope was added because the ‘proof mark’ on the barrel was partially covered by the rear mount. This is the same musket that has the properly marked Lyman 103 tang sight. I didn’t acquire the Win. Letter until later. I appreciate the answers. Roger B
RickC said
Roger I’ve done about 25 searches with CFM the last couple years & had a couple a few years apart but never had one with dates that far apart.
RickC
I spoke too soon. I just searched an 85 serialized in 1909 & shipped in 1916. It appears several 85’s have been on the same journey or shelf.
RickC
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