Avatar
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
High condition or acquisitions
sp_NewTopic Add Topic
Avatar
Wisconsin
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4282
Member Since:
May 2, 2009
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
21
December 26, 2019 - 9:30 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

clarence said

My job, unfortunately, is for a ’92, which means I’ll have to squeeze the ring together after it’s mounted on the receiver, so can’t use a bench vise.  Going to try using a small drill-press vise I can hold in my hand, but have grave doubts about getting it done that way.   

You don’t use a vise to close it like Tedk showed, You twist the ring that way you can install it while the staple is on the gun. Put tape on the gun to protect it you install the ring and with the split away from the gun and you use the 2 crescent wrenches (12″ long) to twist it close just like the link said. I would never use a vise to pinch it closed since metal always has a spring back and you will always have a gap.

Bob

WACA Life Member---
NRA Life Member----
Cody Firearms member since 1991
Researching the Winchester 1873's

73_86cutaway.jpg

Email: [email protected]

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 6281
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
22
December 26, 2019 - 11:15 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

1873man said

You don’t use a vise to close it like Tedk showed, You twist the ring that way you can install it while the staple is on the gun. Put tape on the gun to protect it you install the ring and with the split away from the gun and you use the 2 crescent wrenches (12″ long) to twist it close just like the link said. I would never use a vise to pinch it closed since metal always has a spring back and you will always have a gap.

Bob  

Thanks for clarifying.  Using the 2 crescent wrenches actually sounds easier than trying to manipulate the vise.  There’s no substitute for experience–which in my case I’ll have to acquire “on the job.” 

Ordered the ring today from Homestead, because Winchester Bob had a $25 min.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1071
Member Since:
December 21, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
23
December 27, 2019 - 3:45 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Those stupid rings had a purpose, I don’t know about the saddle guns but a lot of trappers would lash or hook their “trapper carbine” to their “sash” or belt or even on a strap over their shoulder, by the ring so they could access the gun with a single hand, like a pistol, freeing  up the second hand. I suspect horsemen did the same thing, I’ve seen the odd cowboy movie where this was the case, the gun lashed onto the saddle horn and no scabbard. I guess the eastern guys carried their gun in hand and didn’t need the rattle of the saddle ring.

W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 6281
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
24
December 27, 2019 - 4:24 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

Henry Mero said
Those stupid rings had a purpose, I don’t know about the saddle guns but a lot of trappers would lash or hook their “trapper carbine” to their “sash” or belt or even on a strap over their shoulder, by the ring so they could access the gun with a single hand, like a pistol, freeing  up the second hand. I suspect horsemen did the same thing, I’ve seen the odd cowboy movie where this was the case, the gun lashed onto the saddle horn and no scabbard. I guess the eastern guys carried their gun in hand and didn’t need the rattle of the saddle ring.  

Very skeptical this was common among trappers–think of the gun flopping around while they walked, as opposed to shoulder carry with a sling–even an improvised one made of rope; furthermore, how do you handle a lever-action with one hand?  But, you can prove me wrong with some historical image or a reliable historical description. Even if this was sometimes done, do the relative handful of trappers who might use it that way justify attaching the nuisances on ALL the millions of SRCs manufactured?

As for use on horseback, I offer a $100 reward for any historical photo of a SRC carried that way, except of course by cavalry troopers, whose saddle rigging included a leather boot into which the carbine was inserted while riding.  What you’ve probably seen in movies, or more often in the Western paintings of Remington, Russell, etc., are rifles carried across the saddle bow in a short leather strap with slits in both ends to slip over the horn & cradle the gun in the loop thus formed; this was a common practice, & I actually have a beat up ’94 that, judging by the wide, shallow depression in the fore-arm, looks like it had been carried that way over many miles.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1382
Member Since:
July 8, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
25
December 27, 2019 - 4:25 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Henry Mero said
Those stupid rings had a purpose, I don’t know about the saddle guns but a lot of trappers would lash or hook their “trapper carbine” to their “sash” or belt or even on a strap over their shoulder, by the ring so they could access the gun with a single hand, like a pistol, freeing  up the second hand. I suspect horsemen did the same thing, I’ve seen the odd cowboy movie where this was the case, the gun lashed onto the saddle horn and no scabbard. I guess the eastern guys carried their gun in hand and didn’t need the rattle of the saddle ring.  

I suppose this is the reason why you usually don’t see many “trappers” with any kind of condition left.  They were used hard.

Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4970
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
26
December 28, 2019 - 12:50 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I always figured it was the same as a lanyard loop on a pistol or revolver, it made recovery easier if dropped. It’s easy to imagine scenarios where a cavalry soldier (or other mounted rifleman) could loose his grip on his weapon and desire to recover it without having to stop and dismount. I can also imagine a trapper taking a spill while going about his business because I know from firsthand experience those mountain streams offer plenty of opportunity for falls. A string through a saddle ring would make recovering his rifle from the bottom of a mountain stream much easier and quicker.

That’s all theory but the Mounties employed lanyard loops and lanyards for many years. OTOH Clarence is right, we’ve all seen leverguns that have ridden many a mile pressed against a saddle horn.

To each his own. I install my rifle slings “upside down” for quicker deployment from my “off” side and less snagging in the S Texas brush.

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Avatar
Montana
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 647
Member Since:
November 2, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
27
December 28, 2019 - 1:59 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Really guys, it not that difficult.  If you know how to use two crescent wrenches at the same time, you can certainly install a new ring in the  stud or staple on a Winchester SRC.   Going into a bit more detail, lay the carbine on a flat surface (work bench) staple side up.  Spread the ring by twisting each end away from each other at the seam with two crescent wrenches.  Open it only far enough so it will fit the stud or staple.  This procedure may not even be neccessary, if the ring you buy is already opened up and ready to install.  After you have it in position on the staple or stud, close the opening in the ring be twisting then in opposite  directions with the two crescent wrenches.  Piece of cake. 

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 6281
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
28
December 28, 2019 - 4:31 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

TXGunNut said
It’s easy to imagine scenarios where a cavalry soldier (or other mounted rifleman) could loose his grip on his weapon and desire to recover it without having to stop and dismount.  

Yes, but…apples & oranges aren’t ordinarily mixed together.  Historical photos reveal little similarities between the regulation gear of cavalry troopers & that of “other mounted rifleman.”  Should lanyard loops on service revolvers really be considered comparable to saddle rings on civilian carbines?  Cowpunching was rough work, but it wasn’t combat.  As another example of the difference, how often do we see photos of cowboys, ranchers, other civilians, mounted in McClellan saddles?  Which, I suspect, could have been acquired surplus or stolen cheaper than a commercial saddle. 

Is it not more reasonable to seek historical documentation, rather than “imagine”?  Great numbers of “Old West” paintings, drawings & photos exist, so where’s the evidence of “other mounted rifleman,” civilians that is, utilizing Winchester saddle rings in the same way they were used by cavalrymen?

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 6281
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
29
December 28, 2019 - 4:37 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

win4575 said
Really guys, it not that difficult.  If you know how to use two crescent wrenches at the same time, you can certainly install a new ring in the  stud or staple on a Winchester SRC.   Going into a bit more detail, lay the carbine on a flat surface (work bench) staple side up.  Spread the ring by twisting each end away from each other at the seam with two crescent wrenches.  Open it only far enough so it will fit the stud or staple.  This procedure may not even be neccessary, if the ring you buy is already opened up and ready to install.  After you have it in position on the staple or stud, close the opening in the ring be twisting then in opposite  directions with the two crescent wrenches.  Piece of cake.   

Took me awhile to visualize exactly how the 2 crescents were supposed to be manipulated, but explained that way, it IS a piece of cake! 

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1071
Member Since:
December 21, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
30
December 28, 2019 - 6:50 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Geez Clarence You must  be the only guy, out of however many million s.r.c. purchasers , other than some easterners, that think they’re a waste of time and a nuisance. Obviously I like ’em and My favorite Winchester is a Mod.’94 14″ or15″ s.r.c. I once owned a  mod.’92 trapper that belonged to a “sealer” from Labrador, it was modified to use single handed, the stock had been cut and the top part of the stock sanded away to make it almost a “u” shape. I was told this gun was carried on the belt. My father-in -law trapped part time in the winter, when farming duties were at a minimum, back in the ’30’s and ’40’s’, small game like fox, mink martin, bobcat etc. He carried an old Stevens .22 single shot that had a sawed off bbl. and the stock cut down to almost pistol grip length. When he’d run across a live whatever critter in the trap He would dispatch it accordingly . This gun didn’t have a saddle ring but it did have a harness snap on it that He would hook to his belt. This gun is lost to history but I do have the Hopkins and Allen .38 Safety Police revolver that He replaced that old Stevens with, and carried in his pocket. I also have His old Stevens “Dreadnaught ” 12 guage with a 36″ bbl. and chambered for 3″ magnums, this gun was used solely for jack rabbits and geese. Back in the mid ’60 my wife and I would make spare money on the weekend with this gun, shooting jack rabbits and selling them to a local trapper for $1.25 ea. to go for mink food and the hide. On a good weekend I could earn a weeks wages($50.00) this way. Anyway Just My ramblings and if You should run across any of those nuisance guns that You can’t stand give Me a call.

W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 6281
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
31
December 28, 2019 - 8:12 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Henry Mero said
Geez Clarence You must  be the only guy, out of however many million s.r.c. purchasers , other than some easterners, that think they’re a waste of time and a nuisance.  

Please don’t distort my comments, however unpopular they may be–I was referring to those useless flopping RINGS, not the carbines…as I think you can surely see.  And you’re surely aware also that among those “many million s.r.c. purchasers” there were a great many who took the trouble to de-ring their carbines (such as the one I’ve got), otherwise there wouldn’t be all these tutorials on how to re-attach them, as well as the reproductions of them that are available; after all, saddle rings don’t wear out, & can’t be easily detached, so if they’re missing, there’s a good reason for it.

In “Wanted, Dead or Alive,” Steve McQueen carried a chopped-down ’92 in a holster as a side-arm.  That’s as relevant to the way most ’92s were carried & used as your description of the sealer’s butchered gun.  Such a one-of-a-kind modification for a highly specialized purpose is highly interesting, but it can’t be used as a logical explanation of how most SRCs were carried in the field. 

Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4970
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
32
December 28, 2019 - 10:10 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Eagle said
If you’re big on numbers, buy three nice $3500.00 guns. I would skip the $1000.00 lots anymore.   

I agree, many of the $1000 items don’t seem to be good investments though I’ve had a couple notable exceptions. I’ve found some rimfires are often purchased in very good condition for $1000 or even quite a bit less. A centerfire Winchester for $1000 may be a nice gun but hard to sell. I have a very nice late pre-64 94 that I’ve been trying to sell for well under $1000 for over a year now with no takers. Best words of wisdom I’ve heard on the subject is to buy the best guns I can afford. I generally can’t (or won’t) afford a $10,000 gun but I’ll be avoiding the lower condition guns in future acquisitions. I have all the “shooters” I’ll ever need. 

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Avatar
RickC
Guest
WACA Guest
33
December 28, 2019 - 10:25 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

TXGunNut said

I agree, many of the $1000 items don’t seem to be good investments though I’ve had a couple notable exceptions. I’ve found some rimfires are often purchased in very good condition for $1000 or even quite a bit less. A centerfire Winchester for $1000 may be a nice gun but hard to sell. I have a very nice late pre-64 94 that I’ve been trying to sell for well under $1000 for over a year now with no takers. Best words of wisdom I’ve heard on the subject is to buy the best guns I can afford. I generally can’t (or won’t) afford a $10,000 gun but I’ll be avoiding the lower condition guns in future acquisitions. I have all the “shooters” I’ll ever need. 

 

Mike  

I have to agree Mike.

AG

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 329
Member Since:
October 29, 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
34
December 29, 2019 - 5:26 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

TXGunNut said

I agree, many of the $1000 items don’t seem to be good investments though I’ve had a couple notable exceptions. I’ve found some rimfires are often purchased in very good condition for $1000 or even quite a bit less. A centerfire Winchester for $1000 may be a nice gun but hard to sell. I have a very nice late pre-64 94 that I’ve been trying to sell for well under $1000 for over a year now with no takers. Best words of wisdom I’ve heard on the subject is to buy the best guns I can afford. I generally can’t (or won’t) afford a $10,000 gun but I’ll be avoiding the lower condition guns in future acquisitions. I have all the “shooters” I’ll ever need. 

 

Mike  

Everyone has to start somewhere. Don’t expect a new guy to flop out 10 grand for his first purchase. I never have, although I now have some that are now worth that much.

Shoot low boys. They're riding Shetland Ponies.

Avatar
RickC
Guest
WACA Guest
35
December 29, 2019 - 9:06 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Old Logger said

Everyone has to start somewhere. Don’t expect a new guy to flop out 10 grand for his first purchase. I never have, although I now have some that are now worth that much.  

Hard to argue with that Old Logger.

AG

Avatar
Ohio
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 383
Member Since:
May 26, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
36
December 29, 2019 - 3:33 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I think it ultimately boils down to what your comfortable with, and what you can afford. If you buy what you like, and what you can afford you should have no complaints. If your considering buying and reselling, I don’t know where that falls in the collecting world.unless your selling to upgrade?

I have adopted a practice(with many thanks to reading this forum) that when I decide what I am looking for to buy the nicest one I can find for what my wallet allows, which is more often pointing me towards condition…….sometimes that means a thousand sometimes two,or more- but at the end of the day- if I am happy with it, that’s what matters. I have a friend who collect civil war items and some of the pieces he pays darn good money for look like they came out of someone’s garden- but that’s what he likes, so good for him,right.

Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4970
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
37
December 29, 2019 - 4:20 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Unfortunately my collecting strategy involves sellling-eventually. Often I’ll buy a Winchester I’m not familiar with just to learn about it. After studying it and reading about it I’ll sometimes decide to sell it to acquire a better example or move on to another model. I simply can’t keep them all but to the casual observer it seems maybe I have. I’ve sold maybe 6-8 guns over the past few years but would like to sell several more to make room for something different or to build my working capital. There are a few I’ve paid too much for but they are exceptional items that I will probably never sell. The rest I purchase knowing that I’ll possibly have to sell eventually to finance my collecting (and informal research) activity. 

I guess where this ramble is headed is that for me, anyway, a purchase decision is guided by my plans for the item. Price, assuming I can afford it, is sometimes a secondary consideration. More important is quality and collector appeal but most important is whether or not it’s interesting and appealing to me because I’ve had limited success at thinning the herd. 

Buy what you like, like what you buy.

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 6281
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
38
December 29, 2019 - 5:18 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

TXGunNut said
Unfortunately my collecting strategy involves sellling-eventually. Often I’ll buy a Winchester I’m not familiar with just to learn about it. After studying it and reading about it I’ll sometimes decide to sell it to acquire a better example or move on to another model. I simply can’t keep them all but to the casual observer it seems maybe I have.  

Never been a time in my life when I had the money to “keep them all.”  It was always the old, sad, game of selling something to pay for something else.  I wish there was a pill I could swallow to make me forget all the ones that departed that way, as the memory of some of them make me want to beat my head against a brick wall for letting them go–esp. the .30-40 HW with my favorite shotgun butt.  Why did I do it?  Something else had seized my interest, I don’t even remember what.

On the other hand, I learned a great deal about a lot of very different guns, as you say you have.  The collectors who specialize not only in one particular make but maybe even in one particular model I find hard to understand…like the fellow I once knew who had zero interest in any kind of firearm except ’51 Colt Navies, or another I knew who had hoarded the world’s largest collection of Remington derringers, & so forth. 

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4571
Member Since:
March 31, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
39
December 29, 2019 - 6:45 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

clarence said

TXGunNut said
Unfortunately my collecting strategy involves sellling-eventually. Often I’ll buy a Winchester I’m not familiar with just to learn about it. After studying it and reading about it I’ll sometimes decide to sell it to acquire a better example or move on to another model. I simply can’t keep them all but to the casual observer it seems maybe I have.  

Never been a time in my life when I had the money to “keep them all.”  It was always the old, sad, game of selling something to pay for something else.  I wish there was a pill I could swallow to make me forget all the ones that departed that way, as the memory of some of them make me want to beat my head against a brick wall for letting them go–esp. the .30-40 HW with my favorite shotgun butt.  Why did I do it?  Something else had seized my interest, I don’t even remember what.

On the other hand, I learned a great deal about a lot of very different guns, as you say you have.  The collectors who specialize not only in one particular make but maybe even in one particular model I find hard to understand…like the fellow I once knew who had zero interest in any kind of firearm except ’51 Colt Navies, or another I knew who had hoarded the world’s largest collection of Remington derringers, & so forth.   

Clarence, I’m like you in many ways.  I like having many different types and models of guns.  Sold mostly to trade up.  Now I have less guns but in better condition. Same with cars.  Always had to sell one to afford the next one.

Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 491
Member Since:
January 19, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
40
December 29, 2019 - 7:01 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I do not view my guns as a financial investment.  They are an aesthetic investment.  I don’t like them in a safe, where I cannot see them.  Nor do I like them “displayed” where they are the focus.  I like them littered about as if left by the last user, and awaiting the next.  I have some on the wall, but in the same way a user would put them up after coming in from being out and about.  Tools of a trade.

Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 778
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
clarence: 6281
TXGunNut: 4970
Chuck: 4571
1873man: 4282
steve004: 4160
Big Larry: 2324
twobit: 2291
TR: 1710
mrcvs: 1706
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 17
Topics: 12650
Posts: 109998

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1745
Members: 8792
Moderators: 4
Admins: 3
Navigation