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Grand kids have opened their gifts & turkey is in the oven. Now I’m reading in my chair & stumbled onto one of the threads about condition versus quantity. A wise collector once said he would buy one $10,000 gun rather than ten $1000 guns.
I have travelled both sides of this road and wondered what others here do or have done. Personally if I only had $10k to spend, I would probably buy the ten guns. Merry Christmas everyone.
AG
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If you’re big on numbers, buy three nice $3500.00 guns. I would skip the $1000.00 lots anymore.
Eagle said
If you’re big on numbers, buy three nice $3500.00 guns. I would skip the $1000.00 lots anymore.
Yes Eagle thats where I’m at now. I have more grey & brown than high condition, but I’ve started to thin the herd & still like several of them for various reasons & wouldn’t part with them… yet.
I think your suggestion makes good sense tho. In the beginning I enjoyed just acquiring whatever had a rarity or uncommon factor with 30%+ serviceable condition but now steer toward higher condition & value guns.
Still interesting to hear what others do or think.
AG
Condition is where it’s at. If you can find condition AND unusual features, all the better, but it’s condition these days over rarity.
I hate to stereotype, but it’s the up and coming generation(s) which are more superficial than those of previous generations. It’s all about appearances, showy and shiny vs functional and with a few battle scars.
Case in point: Try selling a vintage home these days, well built, but not with open floor plans and all the bells and whistles. VERY difficult to compete with new construction, granite countertops and other “luxuries”.
mrcvs said
Condition is where it’s at. If you can find condition AND unusual features, all the better, but it’s condition these days over rarity.I hate to stereotype, but it’s the up and coming generation(s) which are more superficial than those of previous generations. It’s all about appearances, showy and shiny vs functional and with a few battle scars.
Case in point: Try selling a vintage home these days, well built, but not with open floor plans and all the bells and whistles. VERY difficult to compete with new construction, granite countertops and other “luxuries”.
Disappointing but I think that’s a very fair statement mrcvs. The cost of high value only, would’ve probably ended my collecting career from the get go. Luckily some folks still value the less conditioned guns whether it’s affordability or addiction.
AG
Online
AG said
A wise collector once said he would buy one $10,000 gun rather than ten $1000 guns.
He may have been a “wise collector,” but probably wasn’t a true gun-lover. I once aspired to have one good example of every “famous gun” I’d ever read about–hopeless, but in my 20s & 30s I made a pretty good stab at it, acquiring pistols like Lugers & SA Colts, military rifles like Martini-Henrys & Trap-Door Springfields, & most major Winchester models. This was in the days when guns from all over the world were being advertised in the Rifleman for what seem today like give-away prices, although even then I lacked the means to take full advantage of that huge selection, & still regret I couldn’t afford a Boyd anti-tank rifle. Now, I don’t have a single one left out of all those I acquired back then, but they enabled me to learn a tremendous amount about how guns “work” & shoot–that, for ex., I had no use for bolt-actions like Enfields & early 52s that cock on closing, that the graceful bolt-handles on Mannlicher carbines were clumsy to operate, that though Lugers fit your hand like a glove, they had horrible trigger-pulls, & countless other things I’d never have found out by reading alone, or by merely examining them in a museum.
So I’d prefer to have fun, & maybe learn something I didn’t know, with the “ten $1000 guns.”
There is a cusp out there, where I would say “That gun is a lost cause and a good candidate for refinishing, reconstruction, parting out, blah blah blah” and another gun I would say “DON’T touch it!” The former is invariably a gun where someone already disagreed with me and went for it. In that case, I don’t care how nice it looks to that guy’s eye. I don’t want it. The latter can be a black, rusty relic and I’d rather have an equivalent market value of those, over the most expensive safe queen in America, even if it is 100% original.
The problem I’m seeing, is the guns most people think are crap just because they are black rusty relics are not in abundance. And they are not cheap either.
Where are the old oak barrels stuffed with black rusty relics at $5.00 apiece? I feel it is my duty help people clean out their barns.
mrcvs said
Condition is where it’s at. If you can find condition AND unusual features, all the better, but it’s condition these days over rarity.I hate to stereotype, but it’s the up and coming generation(s) which are more superficial than those of previous generations. It’s all about appearances, showy and shiny vs functional and with a few battle scars.
Case in point: Try selling a vintage home these days, well built, but not with open floor plans and all the bells and whistles. VERY difficult to compete with new construction, granite countertops and other “luxuries”.
I’d buy that vintage home. It won’t have osb in it. Made with real plywood and better quality lumber. Better bones.
Shoot low boys. They're riding Shetland Ponies.
I’m surely the minority here….. I have no love for abused, neglected Winchesters.(I do love the price point though) I do have a love for making these rifles look like they did when the crate or box was opened for the first time. Originality is not a concern for me, just a good looking rifle that I’m not afraid to shoot. I would venture to say over 50% of my “accumulation” has been restored/refinished. With more on the to do list! I do have a few non shooters because of exceptional condition but I also have shooters of the same model.
Erin
Erin Grivicich said
I’m surely the minority here….. I have no love for abused, neglected Winchesters.(I do love the price point though) I do have a love for making these rifles look like they did when the crate or box was opened for the first time. Originality is not a concern for me, just a good looking rifle that I’m not afraid to shoot. I would venture to say over 50% of my “accumulation” has been restored/refinished. With more on the to do list! I do have a few non shooters because of exceptional condition but I also have shooters of the same model.Erin
I have redone 2 model 94’s with no regrets. They were in sad shape before I found them. One a rifle in .25-35, the other a SRC. The metal was smooth and good bores. They both got new wood from Dixie that I fit to them and finished with the correct stain and varnish. Replaced a few parts like sights and saddle ring. My brother refinished a 95 Carbine that had been in our family for a long time. It turned out great.
Shoot low boys. They're riding Shetland Ponies.
Old Logger said
Replaced a few parts like sights and saddle ring.
I hate those stupid rings which serve no practical purpose but to rattle, an opinion obviously shared by some previous intelligent owner of a ’92 carbine I’ve been wanting to sell. However, I’m afraid that the gun will be run-down because the stupid ring is missing, so I’ve been wondering how to replace it, which will require removing the staple. How did you do it?
I replaced the ring on the 94 which simply screws in iirc. Had a 92 with the staple which the previous owner sawed off. Punched what was left out of the receiver and had my gunsmith install the new staple. I always add a leather thong to the saddle ring to quiet it down and to keep it from rubbing against the receiver.
Shoot low boys. They're riding Shetland Ponies.
Old Logger said
Had a 92 with the staple which the previous owner sawed off. Punched what was left out of the receiver and had my gunsmith install the new staple.
The staple on mine is unaltered, so can’t be easily punched out. If sawing off the upper part is the only way to knock it out, I guess this carbine will have to stay ringless.
The ring on a SCR is easy to install without removing the staple. It requires a vice and a crescent or two crescent wrenches. You twist the ring opening the split install it and then twist it back. Use a padded vice and put tape on the ring to prevent marring the ring.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
1873man said
The ring on a SCR is easy to install without removing the staple. It requires a vice and a crescent or two crescent wrenches. You twist the ring opening the split install it and then twist it back. Use a padded vice and put tape on the ring to prevent marring the ring.Bob
Bob, Thanks for this link, but I thought the original rings were one piece, not split.
The early first model 73’s I think were solid or maybe soldered but by 1883 or earlier they were split.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
1873man said
The early first model 73’s I think were solid or maybe soldered but by 1883 or earlier they were split.Bob
Thanks–going to order one from Winchester Bob. But just one more question: how are you supposed to “close the gap to just past the point of no gap, as the ring will spread slightly as you close it with the wrenches”? Is he talking about overlapping the two ends of the ring?
As Cliff said, pinch the ring in a vise slightly so when you bend it back flat the ends are tight.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Tedk said
Saddle ring installation pictorial.
Thanks for posting this. I like the comment “many carbines have had their rings removed,” which tells you all you need to know about their usefulness. Guess those guys in the East who wanted a carbine (“Eastern carbine”) were a lot smarter.
My job, unfortunately, is for a ’92, which means I’ll have to squeeze the ring together after it’s mounted on the receiver, so can’t use a bench vise. Going to try using a small drill-press vise I can hold in my hand, but have grave doubts about getting it done that way.
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