tionesta1 said
A friend of mine made this carousel for me some years ago. He made the W out of cherry.

  

Here’s one I made some years back for Little John.  It used to be in a glass case with some nice rifles.  Now it is a mail box.  I like the guard standing by.

Shrapnel said

Chuck said

I would love to have one of the Burgess shotguns.  These have gotten real pricey.  I bid on one for a friend and was in it for $10K for a short time.  It sold for 15K.  My friend did not get it.

  

These Burgess are scarce shotguns. A takedown with solid rib, a cutaway salesman’s sample and a folder…

 

  

Very nice.  Maybe someday.

Burgess shotguns belong in man caves.  Remember that in some ways, they are, “Winchester” in that in 1899, Winchester bought out the Burgess Gun Company.

Included in the group below is a two-barrel set (matching numbers) with solid ribs, an engraved gun, and a folder:

The grip slides were either gutta percha or walnut:

They engraved some of them (not very many):

John Moses Browning is deserving of his reputation as prolific inventor, but Andrew Burgess is also deserving of much credit.

The folding version of the shotgun really caught Teddy Roosevelt’s eye when he was Police Commissioner of the State of New York.  The gun held six in the tube and one in the chamber.  Burgess hired trick shooter artist Charlie Damon to promote the gun.  There is a photo of him shooting the gun keeping six or seven (I can’t remember for sure how many) empty hulls in the air at once.  Back to Teddy Roosevelt – Charlie strode into his office, introduced himself and then suddenly drew his shotgun from his holster and fired six blanks at the ceiling.  TR was so impressed that he ordered 100 shotguns for the State Police.  

A neat thing about the Burgess folder was that it could be purchased with a belt holster – the shotgun easily concealed as it would ride upright under a coat.  The other cool thing is it can be drawn into action very quickly.  You can grab it by the grip and by flicking it forward, inertia can snap it into place.  At that point all you have to do is pull the trigger.  How many shotguns do you know of that can be carried full loaded – mag tube full – one in the chamber – hammer cocked – and is perfectly safe?  There is no way it can go off as the barrel isn’t connected to the receiver – but it can be in about one second. 

Steve,

Great write up and presentation on a fine collection.

I do remember reading that Winchester bought out Burgess in the late 1800’s, as I recall, was after the Death of Oliver Winchester in 1880. On the business side of things, Winchester maintained their prowess in the industry.

The gun with the gutta percha or walnut grip slides, has what kind of wood on the rest of the gun? Looks to be a lighter stained American Walnut, from the pictures.

A two barrel set, with matching numbers is pretty much unheard of, as far as I know. I think many of us can relate to the folding Burgess, as seen in pictures over time. An engraved model is pretty hard to find, as I would imagine.

I have to say that I really enjoyed this.

Thanks for sharing,

Anthony

Steve,

WOW!

Those additional pictures are impressive, as it really shows the features well! I was always a fan of engraved screw heads, which seemed to be a thing of the times, at that period. How about the additional checkering, in a tear drop kind of shape for the thumb to prevent slipping, or just to enhance the grip. A very well made firearm!

Anthony

TXGunNut said
When I read the Burgess story and look at their guns I always wonder what could have been. They do indeed belong in a gun room, great place to relax and ponder.

 

Mike

  

Well, Shrapnel had the wisdom to have a few Burgesses in his man cave

steve004 said

TXGunNut said

When I read the Burgess story and look at their guns I always wonder what could have been. They do indeed belong in a gun room, great place to relax and ponder.

 

Mike

  

Well, Shrapnel had the wisdom to have a few Burgesses in his man cave

  

Steve-

While I appreciate the efforts of you and Shrapnel introducing me to the wonderful world of Burgess, Whitney and Kennedy I’m still compelled to focus my collecting efforts and limited fiscal resources on Winchesters. Studying Marlins and the above period firearms helps me better understand Winchesters and I certainly enjoy the pictures. One reason I retired was to devote more time to my Winchester habit but some of you know how hard it is to actually pull off that trick. Still working on it!

Mike

TXGunNut said

steve004 said

TXGunNut said

When I read the Burgess story and look at their guns I always wonder what could have been. They do indeed belong in a gun room, great place to relax and ponder.

 

Mike

  

Well, Shrapnel had the wisdom to have a few Burgesses in his man cave

  

Steve-

While I appreciate the efforts of you and Shrapnel introducing me to the wonderful world of Burgess, Whitney and Kennedy I’m still compelled to focus my collecting efforts and limited fiscal resources on Winchesters. Studying Marlins and the above period firearms helps me better understand Winchesters and I certainly enjoy the pictures. One reason I retired was to devote more time to my Winchester habit but some of you know how hard it is to actually pull off that trick. Still working on it!

 

Mike

  

Mike –

I was glad to read you enjoyed the pictures.  

My interest in other brand firearms helps me better understand the context (e.g. shooter and hunter’s emerging and changing tastes) that Winchester existed in.  And of course, much of the moves they made were in response to that context.  Another context was what their competition was doing – and how their competitor firearms companies were responding and adjusting to that same context that they all operated in. 

The ballgame wasn’t about the past (the guns they had sold), it was about the guns that would sell in the future – the guns they needed to sell in the future to continue to exist.  All the firearms companies were noodling this which was the impetus for the progressive changes and developments they pursued.  Surely, how Winchesters competitors were calling their own shots would have been of interest to Winchester.  As an example, Marlin made the decision to go with a significant design change from their Model 1881 and 1888 top ejection models to side ejection.  This helped set them apart from the Winchester designs.  It helped make Marlin different.  I suspect Marlin would have not been nearly as successful had they kept with the top ejection design. 

Whitney-Kennedy and Bullard really didn’t upgrade or advance to significantly different designs.  And of course, they didn’t make it either.  It’s also interesting to look at failures – some of which are not surprising.  For example, Standard Arms was going bankrupt and didn’t have much horsepower left as a company.  The shareholders came up with a new development – the “Camp 50” (a slide action .50 caliber smoothbore).  Wow – that rifle did not sell! It was a desperate measure executed by people who did not have the knowledge or experience to make such decisions.  Of course, this is why it took me over 20 years to find a Camp 50.  

Winchester did not come about or operate in a vacuum.  The more I understand their competitors guns, the more I understand Winchester.  

steve004 said
Anthony –

Glad you enjoyed the Burgess topic.  The Burgess Gun company was in business formed in 1892 and Winchester bought them out in 1899.  One wonders the extent to which they pondered the Burgess shotgun being a strong competitor to their M1897 shotgun?  

Also of interest, Burgess made some rifles on this same action.  I would classify all of those I am aware of as prototypes.  Shrapnel has a very interesting one in .44-40 – that is a two-barrel set.  I am also aware of one in .45-70 and .30 WCF.

I just took some more photos of the shotgun with the gutta percha grips and solid rib.  The wood is a lighter colored walnut.

  

Since I was the smallest of boys, I was examining the actions of rifles.  The big family deer hunt always involved me examining the actions of the various deer rifles that came along.  Everything from various Winchesters to Marlins to Remington M81’s, to Mausers to Savage 99’s and so on.  The Burgess shotguns are some of the most interesting actions you will find.  There’s nothing obvious about them.  If I handed one to most gun guys (who weren’t familiar with them), most would scratch their heads.  It would take a while to even comprehend what kind of mechanism it is (e.g. semi-auto or slide?).  And many would not catch on that the slide is in the grip.  And how does it load?  There’s no observable place to insert the shell, and where would the empties come out?  Top? Bottom?  For me, the more it is a puzzler, the more it captivates me?  

Or take a Whitney-Kennedy.  Sure, there’s a loading gate on the side.  Try to push a shell into it.  The loading gate won’t move (the action has to be open for the loading gate to move).  Take a Bullard.  No loading gate can be observed on either side of the receiver.  Nothing moves on the bottom.  Open the action and it loads underneath like a M1897 shotgun.  Cool stuff.

Edit:  writing this post brought back memories of when I examined my first Savage M99 (a .250-3000).  A hammerless lever action takedown rifle with a rotary magazine, cartridge counter and cocking indicator on top of the receiver.  I was enthralled.  Later, the first Savage I ever bought was the identical to what I just described (with a perch belly stock ).