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gift 86 Winchester to California grandson
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July 13, 2023 - 6:18 pm
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I want to give my 86 Winchester 45-70 made in 1893 to my grandson to take back to California. I think it qualifies as an antique but CA seems to think if ammo is currently produced and is available. it may be subject to all of their ridiculous laws. Can anybody enlighten me on the legality they have experienced? Don

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July 13, 2023 - 7:23 pm
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If it doesn’t have to be shipped to a CA dealer, you have no problem. 

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July 14, 2023 - 1:02 am
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86Win said
I want to give my 86 Winchester 45-70 made in 1893 to my grandson to take back to California. I think it qualifies as an antique but CA seems to think if ammo is currently produced and is available. it may be subject to all of their ridiculous laws. Can anybody enlighten me on the legality they have experienced? Don

  

I suspect the laws in effect where the transfer takes place are the ones that govern the transfer. I’m no attorney, haven’t stayed in a Holiday Inn Express for years, please don’t confuse my observations with legal advice.

 

Mike

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July 14, 2023 - 8:55 pm
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Does he visit you from time to time?  I’m trying to clarify if it needs to be shipped.  

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July 14, 2023 - 9:07 pm
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He is staying here with us a few days and could take it with him when he returns to communifornia. Don

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July 14, 2023 - 9:20 pm
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I also am not an attorney and I don’t know what state you reside in.  But in in most states, it meets the definition of an antique and you can hand him the rifle and it is his. No formal transfer is required. Once it is his rifle, he would be returning to California with his rifle.  Am I missing anything here?

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July 14, 2023 - 9:36 pm
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I saw in some site that in CA if a firearm is able to be shot with currently available ammo. it might have to be registered. I hope I am wrong.

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July 14, 2023 - 11:33 pm
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86Win said
I saw in some site that in CA if a firearm is able to be shot with currently available ammo. it might have to be registered. I hope I am wrong.

  

That would be interesting.  That would mean Trapdoor Springfields, Winchester M1873’s, Colt-Burgess rifle, Colt Lightning (pre-1899 rifles) and a host of other rifles would need to be registered.  

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July 15, 2023 - 12:37 am
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steve004 said

That would be interesting.  That would mean Trapdoor Springfields, Winchester M1873’s, Colt-Burgess rifle, Colt Lightning (pre-1899 rifles) and a host of other rifles would need to be registered.   

Nonsense.  EVEN in Cally. 

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July 15, 2023 - 1:32 pm
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PERHAPS I misread and that applies to C&Rs ?

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July 17, 2023 - 5:43 pm
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Don, I have lived in California most of my life and have been collecting Winchesters for a long time.  If the gun is an antique it can be shipped right to your son’s front door.  The problem is with the shippers that don’t handle the shipments with care. If you ship it take great care to over pack the rifle.  Buy a hard plastic gun case and then put it in a box with lots of padding.

Guns other than antiques have to go from a FFL to a FFL. There is a Ca. form that has to be filled out and emailed to the state.  It takes less than a minute to fill out.  Ca. wants to make sure both the FFL’s are currently legal.  Once approved this form has to be shipped with the gun. This approval usually happens within a few days or less.  California did some drop tests on pistols and revolvers.  If the gun went off when dropped on the hammer they can not come into the state.  There is a list of either the bad ones or just the good ones, I just don’t remember.  If these guns are already here we can still buy them or sell them by a private party transfer or send them out of state.

I fly in and out of Ca. with guns a lot. Modern and otherwise. TSA doesn’t check the status of the gun, only the safe shipping process. Get a TSA legal case and he can fly home with it.  You can even fly with ammo.  I just don’t know the regulations.  You’d have to call the specific airline.

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July 18, 2023 - 9:58 pm
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Due to a mix-up of ammo on the shooting bench this is now the condition of the 86 that was going to CA. What do I do? rebarrel, sell parts? Is it stll collectable with a new barrel? Obviously it would still be a shooter. Will rebarrel cost more than ultimate value? Hunt for used barrel? Where is gun smith to replace barrel?

I have had this rifle for 63 years and I can’t explain my feelings. DonP1030446.JPGImage EnlargerP1030447.JPGImage EnlargerP1030448.JPGImage Enlarger

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July 18, 2023 - 10:06 pm
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86Win said
Due to a mix-up of ammo on the shooting bench this is now the condition of the 86 that was going to CA. What do I do? rebarrel, sell parts? Is it stll collectable with a new barrel? Obviously it would still be a shooter. Will rebarrel cost more than ultimate value? Hunt for used barrel? Where is gun smith to replace barrel?

I have had this rifle for 63 years and I can’t explain my feelings. DonP1030446.JPGImage EnlargerP1030447.JPGImage EnlargerP1030448.JPGImage Enlarger

You did this today?  What happened?

Admittedly, it was a nice rifle.

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July 18, 2023 - 10:52 pm
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86Win said
Due to a mix-up of ammo on the shooting bench this is now the condition of the 86 that was going to CA. What do I do? rebarrel, sell parts? Is it stll collectable with a new barrel? Obviously it would still be a shooter. Will rebarrel cost more than ultimate value? Hunt for used barrel? Where is gun smith to replace barrel?

I’d be having a nervous breakdown, I think!  Very sorry for you!  Did a bullet from a squib load lodge in the brl? 

Best hope is a new brl, & there are several makers of very good repros.  Here’s one: http://www.winchesterbarrels.com/

A used brl would be better, but finding one in same cond. as gun would be a huge challenge.  Even with a new brl, it will still be a valuable gun.  Talyor Machine is one of best restoration gunsmiths in country, but there are others; switching brl is an easy job on Winchesters.

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July 18, 2023 - 11:09 pm
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clarence said

86Win said

Due to a mix-up of ammo on the shooting bench this is now the condition of the 86 that was going to CA. What do I do? rebarrel, sell parts? Is it stll collectable with a new barrel? Obviously it would still be a shooter. Will rebarrel cost more than ultimate value? Hunt for used barrel? Where is gun smith to replace barrel?

I’d be having a nervous breakdown, I think!  Very sorry for you!  Did a bullet from a squib load lodge in the brl? 

Best hope is a new brl, & there are several makers of very good repros.  Here’s one: http://www.winchesterbarrels.com/

A used brl would be better, but finding one in same cond. as gun would be a huge challenge.  Even with a new brl, it will still be a valuable gun.  Talyor Machine is one of best restoration gunsmiths in country, but there are others; switching brl is an easy job on Winchesters.

  

It looks like a bullet from a squib was lodged in the barrel.  I agree.

IF the right original barrel can be located, that’s what I would do, but where to obtain said barrel?

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July 18, 2023 - 11:25 pm
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That’s a heart-breaker.  Not that I think this is the best option, but given the rifle likely has a standard 26 inch barrel, and it could be shortened down to 16 inches and remain legal, some might evaluate the feasibility of turning it into a short rifle.  

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July 18, 2023 - 11:26 pm
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First picture says it all. I hope and pray that no one was hurt! screw the barrel it can be replaced. A persons body parts, WAY more difficult.

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July 18, 2023 - 11:34 pm
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 I’m sad that happen to you, but if no one was hurt you were lucky. The truth is everyone learns from your mistake, including your grandson. You did everyone on this Forum a favor by posting those pictures. Thanks T/R

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July 19, 2023 - 12:24 am
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Thanks, guys

My grandson was shootlng it at the time. Subject closed.

I have realized that finding a similar barrel with probably 70% blue and good bore will be almost impossible. A new barrel won’t even come close to matching the magazine. I don’t want to shorten barrel and mag. I haven’t removed the forearm yet to check for further damage (could it affect receiver?) I did see WINCHESTER BARRELS on line and may contact them.

FYI the gun dates to 1893 and was extremely accurate.

I bought the gun in 1960 for $75 and told my wife if we got into dire straits I could sell it. She says we have been through monsoons and tsunamis and “YOU STILL HAVE THAT DAMNED OLD GUN”. It has been part and parcel of our 65 year marriage. Sorry for rambling. Don

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July 19, 2023 - 12:39 am
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I have realized that finding a similar barrel with probably 70% blue and good bore will be almost impossible. A new barrel won’t even come close to matching the magazine. 86Win said

  

It could be made to come close by someone who knows what he’s doing.  But finding an old one to match would be just as difficult.  If you don’t know anyone else, send John Taylor your photo & ask him if he’d rebarrel it for you.  He may have better source for replacement brl.  Of course, Doug Turnbull could do the work, but the cost would be steep.

https://johntaylormachine.com/

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