Avatar
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
Edwin Pugsley info sought
Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 11
Member Since:
January 13, 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
October 10, 2018 - 5:49 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Hi,

 

   I’m hoping to find someone who may know if Edwin Pugsley, who joined Winchester in the Browning era and ended years later as CEO, ever donated his professional papers to any archive or organization.

  He gave his collection of firearms to the Cody museum, but I’m interested in any papers or letters about his work that may have been preserved after his death in 1989.

  I’m doing research for a prospective book about his era.

  Thanks!

 

     Nathan Gorenstein

 

  

Avatar
TXGunNut
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 6400
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
October 10, 2018 - 11:38 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory

Did the folks at CFM have anything for you? I think his collection was donated before the Winchester collection was moved to Cody but quite a bit of the archives went West as well.

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Board Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Avatar
Bert H.
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 12843
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
October 11, 2018 - 12:02 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Nathan,

As somewhat of a Winchester history buff myself, I am confounded by some of the information in your statements. Specifically, if Edwin Pugsley joined Winchester during the Browning era (1883 – 1901), he would have been extremely old man if he had lived to the year 1989.

Bert

WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 11
Member Since:
January 13, 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
October 11, 2018 - 8:27 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory

Hi Bert,

 

     Certainly you know more about the subject than I! Good catch, as I did indeed get the date of his death wrong. Thats what I get for rushing.

     I was using an all encompassing definition for the “Browning era” as Browning returned to Winchester during World War I to help with production of the BAR, which is when Pugsley met him. Though your point is well taken. Any idea who might know about Pugsley’s papers?

 

Nathan

Avatar
clarence
NY
Member
Restricted
Forum Posts: 7119
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
October 11, 2018 - 12:47 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory

Have you asked that question to the curator of the Winchester collection at Cody?  It’s the obvious place to begin an inquiry.   

Avatar
Vince
SO. Oregon
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 687
Member Since:
June 5, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
October 11, 2018 - 9:58 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

There is an Edwin Pugsley memoir but it is closely held by the family, for some unknown reason. Sure wish they would allow publication. 

Vince
Southern Oregon
NRA member
Fraternal Order of Eagles

 “There is but one answer to be made to the dynamite bomb and that can best be made by the Winchester rifle.”

Teddy Roosevelt 

4029-1.jpg

Avatar
Bert H.
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 12843
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
October 11, 2018 - 10:35 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

[email protected] said
Hi Bert,

      Certainly you know more about the subject than I! Good catch, as I did indeed get the date of his death wrong. Thats what I get for rushing.

     I was using an all encompassing definition for the “Browning era” as Browning returned to Winchester during World War I to help with production of the BAR, which is when Pugsley met him. Though your point is well taken. Any idea who might know about Pugsley’s papers?

 Nathan  

From my perspective (and I suspect many others), the “Browning era” at Winchester took place from December 1883 through mid year 1901.  His brief interaction with Winchester during WW I was just that… brief, and of sole purpose.

In regards to any papers that Pugsley may have kept or donated, I would be inclined to ask Herbert Houze that question.  If any anyone might know, it will be Herb.

Bert

WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
TXGunNut
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 6400
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
8
October 12, 2018 - 2:54 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Good luck on your book project. I’ve always been a bit intrigued by Pugsley, he was apparently a very intelligent man and a bit eccentric.

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Board Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Avatar
clarence
NY
Member
Restricted
Forum Posts: 7119
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
9
October 12, 2018 - 1:31 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Bert H. said

In regards to any papers that Pugsley may have kept or donated, I would be inclined to ask Herbert Houze that question.  If any anyone might know, it will be Herb.

Bert  

Houze’s 52 book mentions Pugsley countless times, but in his bibliography, the only unpublished source listed is the TC Johnson collection, as well as other records held in the Winchester collection.

Campbell’s 2nd vol. includes the only Pugsley biography I’ve seen, the only source of which seems to be the Winchester Herald.

Avatar
Brad Dunbar
Moderator
Moderator
Forum Posts: 986
Member Since:
December 30, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10
October 12, 2018 - 4:11 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

There’s a good chance that an article about Edwin Pugsley will be in The Winchester Collector very soon, probably the Winter 2019 issue.

Regards

Brad Dunbar

http://1895book.com/

Avatar
TXGunNut
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 6400
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
11
October 13, 2018 - 3:13 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Nathan-

Danny Michael, assistant curator of the Cody Firearms Museum, will be a good contact. 

[email protected] 307-578-4099

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Board Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Avatar
Chuck
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 5799
Member Since:
March 31, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
12
October 15, 2018 - 3:38 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Brad Dunbar said
There’s a good chance that an article about Edwin Pugsley will be in The Winchester Collector very soon, probably the Winter 2019 issue.  

Brad have you ever seen this advertiser before?

Avatar
Brad Dunbar
Moderator
Moderator
Forum Posts: 986
Member Since:
December 30, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
13
October 16, 2018 - 12:08 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Hi Chuck

Yes, there’s also one at the McCracken Research Library in one of the files related to the Model 1895.  It’s also pictured in our book.

Thanks

Regards

Brad Dunbar

http://1895book.com/

Avatar
Maverick
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2024
Member Since:
May 23, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
14
October 16, 2018 - 2:02 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

I think there is one on Ebay right now as well.

Maverick

Avatar
CPC
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 38
Member Since:
August 22, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
15
November 11, 2018 - 3:45 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

As I understand, Bruce Canfield owns most of the Pugsley papers.  He used them rather extensively in his latest book on the M1 Garand.  Regards CC 

Avatar
clarence
NY
Member
Restricted
Forum Posts: 7119
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
16
November 11, 2018 - 4:52 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

CPC said
As I understand, Bruce Canfield owns most of the Pugsley papers.  He used them rather extensively in his latest book on the M1 Garand.  Regards CC   

Rather a shame, I think, when historical records become a private individual’s personal property.  Yes, I know…can’t fight the greed of descendant’s who inherit such records.

Aside from the limits such a restriction places on further research, there’s always the possibility that after the current owner’s death, such records may be lost, “misplaced,” or tied up forever if a will is contested.

I’m personally acquainted with two cases in which this happened:  all Unertl’s shop records, serial no. info, etc, became the property of the last owner of the company, who moved operations first to Texas, then somewhere else, before going out of business & disappearing, apparently, off the edge of the world; all this was yrs ago.

Lyman sold all their scope records to Gill Parsons when he bought rights to mfg. the STS, but when he died they became a bone of contention between Gill’s widow & his son, according to a friend of mine who tried to buy them from the family; whatever the truth of that situation, these records haven’t been available since Gill’s death about 8 yrs ago.

Avatar
jwm94
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 1118
Member Since:
May 24, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
17
November 11, 2018 - 9:11 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory

There seems to be quite a lot of references to him on the ‘net’ and in census information.  I would certainly contact Yale University Archives in New Haven to see if they might have some information that might help you in your research.

James

Avatar
TXGunNut
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 6400
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
18
November 11, 2018 - 10:20 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

clarence said

Rather a shame, I think, when historical records become a private individual’s personal property.  Yes, I know…can’t fight the greed of descendant’s who inherit such records…..

I agree to a point, but I’m willing to bet Canfield has these documents because someone saved them when Winchester was ready to destroy them as they did so many records. Eighty or a hundred years ago they had no way of knowing how interesting we’d find these records today.

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Board Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Avatar
David Albert
New Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 1
Member Since:
November 27, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
19
November 27, 2022 - 11:05 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Hi Nathan,

I realize this thread is 4 years old, but I thought I’d mention that I have some Edwin Pugsley correspondence in regards to potentially providing barrels for the Hyde Model 35 Submachine gun in the mid-1930’s.  I also have his business card.

The correspondence is summarized in an article I wrote 16 years ago for Small Arms Review Magazine, to which a link is provided below.

https://smallarmsreview.com/the-hyde-model-35-submachine-gun/

If any of the information might prove useful to you, please let me know.

Thanks,

David Albert
[email protected]

Avatar
clarence
NY
Member
Restricted
Forum Posts: 7119
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
20
November 27, 2022 - 11:24 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

For some reason your link didn’t open for me. 

Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 4623
Currently Online: 1ned1, 450 Fuller, Bo Rich, MidwestCrisis
Guest(s) 169
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
clarence: 7119
TXGunNut: 6400
Chuck: 5799
steve004: 5155
1873man: 4693
deerhunter: 2692
Big Larry: 2546
twobit: 2491
mrcvs: 2190
Maverick: 2024
Newest Members:
Larsmack
usmc1978
Otisman68
Deaf Smith
Texasaggie19
Diego
Bkmkok
Leonardb
Skysquatch82
cdavis5705
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 18
Topics: 14697
Posts: 131465

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 2057
Members: 9972
Moderators: 3
Admins: 4
Administrators: Mike Hager, Bert H., JWA, SethJ
Moderators: Rob Kassab, Brad Dunbar, Heather
Navigation