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This rifle below is not a “short rifle” although it’s listed as a short rifle but it’s actually an extra light as stated in the letter.
I have an 86 short rifle which has a 22” barrel, but also has the short 8 3/8 forestock.
John Madl told the previous owner yrs ago he’s only known of one other at that time somewhere in Colorado. Anyway if someone knows better feel free to enlighten me.
AG
Here’s a pic of my 86 short rifle on top of my standard 86 with 26” barrel. You can see the difference in the forestock length. My extra lights have the same forearm length as the standard rifle, whereas a true short rifles has a shorter forestock.
AG
AG I not sure I,m following You, are You saying that all extra lite ’86’s takedowns are 22″ bbl’d. The letter on this particular gun mentions it’s 22″, would they mention it if that was the standard bbl. length then also mention it being a extra lite. I can’t tell from the pictures if that is a 83/8 or 93/8 forestock on that gun. I have one with a 24″ takedown bbl’ 9 3/8 wood, but I’m pretty certain it’s been altered some time in it’s life.
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
Henry Mero said
AG I not sure I,m following You, are You saying that all extra lite ’86’s takedowns are 22″ bbl’d. The letter on this particular gun mentions it’s 22″, would they mention it if that was the standard bbl. length then also mention it being a extra lite. I can’t tell from the pictures if that is a 83/8 or 93/8 forestock on that gun. I have one with a 24″ takedown bbl’ 9 3/8 wood, but I’m pretty certain it’s been altered some time in it’s life.
Hi Henry, no I also have a 26” barrel light weight, but it has the longer 9 3/8 fore stock. A “short rifle” can have any less than standard length barrel but the short rifle forestock is 8 3/8 ? the same as my 1894 short rifles.
AG
All Model 1886 Extra Lightweight Rifles were standard with a 22-inch barrel, and 45-70 caliber Any other barrel length or caliber would have been a special order.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
All Model 1886 Extra Lightweight Rifles were standard with a 22-inch barrel, and 45-70 caliber Any other barrel length or caliber would have been a special order.
Bert
I thought some were .33 also.
Shoot low boys. They're riding Shetland Ponies.
I understood a true short rifle has a 8 3/8 forestock & the rear sight dovetail is 1” closer to the receiver, unlike the extra lights & standard rifles.
AG
January 26, 2011
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AG said
A true short rifle has a 8 3/8 forestock. The rear sights on a short rifle are also back closer the receiver, unlike the extra lights.AG
Since the ’94 was mentioned above, lets make sure we don’t lump them into this conversation. The statement above is false with respect to them.
As for the rifle in question, I think the interesting part is the 1/2 octagon barrel on an ELW 86. I think they were only cataloged as 22″, 45-70, round barrels w/ramp sights, shotgun butt etc. It looks like a special order rifle, but to call it a short rifle might be a stretch since its in the ELW configuration, which was 22″ standard. Anyway, a cool rifle indeed.
~Gary~
January 26, 2011
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mrcvs said
.33 WCF were 24″ barrels.
And they were not called lightweights, just fell into their own category of “1886 33 cal. rifle” ……. for whatever reason.
~Gary~
pdog72 said
Since the ’94 was mentioned above, lets make sure we don’t lump them into this conversation. The statement above is false with respect to them.
As for the rifle in question, I think the interesting part is the 1/2 octagon barrel on an ELW 86. I think they were only cataloged as 22″, 45-70, round barrels w/ramp sights, shotgun butt etc. It looks like a special order rifle, but to call it a short rifle might be a stretch since its in the ELW configuration, which was 22″ standard. Anyway, a cool rifle indeed.
I own both a 94 & 86 short rifle. The rear sight location(back further than other rifles) & forestock(8 3/8) are the same on both.
I own an ELW 33 cal(24” barrel) & 45-70(22”’ barrel). The rear sight locations and fore stocks are not the same as the 94 & 86 short rifles.
Is this not what identifies the short rifle?.
Not all, but most collectors have never seen a short rifle or owned one.
AG
Old Logger said
I thought some were .33 also.
Only as a special order.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
AG said
I own both a 94 & 86 short rifle. The rear sight location(back further than other rifles) & forestock(8 3/8) are the same on both.
I own an ELW 33 cal(24” barrel) & 45-70(22”’ barrel). The rear sight locations and fore stocks are not the same as the 94 & 86 short rifles.
This is what identifies the short rifle.
Not all, but most collectors have never seen a short rifle, let alone owned one.AG
Rick,
Your 33 WCF 1886 is not an ELW if it has a 24-inch barrel. Instead, it is simply a standard 33 WCF Model 1886 Rifle.
Model 1894 Short rifles (barrel lengths < 26-inches) are very frequently found with 9 ⅜” forend stocks, especially those that were manufactured with 24-inch and 22-inch barrels. The majority of the Model 1894 Short rifles with a 20-inch (or shorter) barrel were made with an 8 ⅜” forend stock, but not all of them.
I believe that you are very misinformed based on your statement below;
Not all, but most collectors have never seen a short rifle, let alone owned one.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Although I’ve mentioned my 1894 short rifle, I’m referring to 1886 short rifles for this post & not many out there.
AG
AG said
https://winchestercollector.org/magazines/198701/27/index.html
Rick,
You are not helping your own argument. The article in question is for the most part correct as it pertains to the Model 1894 (Barry did not discuss all of the many nuances that exist with the Model 1894 Short Rifles, specifically the fact that not all Short Rifles have a 1-inch shorter forend stock). That stated, you made a specific point that you are referring to the Model 1886 Short Rifles (not covered or discussed in any detail in the article above).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
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