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I came across an 1892 takedown on gunbroker the other day (SN 629028).
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/852929080
Ive been collecting some information on tang assembly markings for a little while and had a general question on how you would interpret or view these tang markings?
From what the lower tang reads “1011?” XX O(?) “RB”, you would expect it to have at least XX wood with rubber butt – but the assembly number is not X’d out, but looks like it has a line through it. On the upper tang the assembly number reads 10202 “CF”, “R”. The upper tang inlet is matching with assembly number 10202. As can be seen, the rifle has plain wood and is I-checked, and suspect the “R” on the upper tang again refers to rubber butt. Does anyone disagree that the assembly numbers are legit? If they are legitimate, would it be likely the rifle had fancy wood and was later changed out to plain wood for some reason or another. Unfortunately there is not a pic of the underside of the buttplate to see if it has the 1011? assembly number.
Just looking for differing opinions if any are to be had as a matter of curiosity.
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
Chris,
The “R” stands for Rifle. The 73’s have them as well as “C” for carbine and “M” for musket. The pictures are not of high enough resolution to see the stampings good enough to see if they look real or not. My gut feeling is they look real. I don’t see a reason for someone to fake the stamps.
From the “XX” on it I would of wanted to see some fancy wood but it may of been a R&R and the wood was downgraded.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
1892takedown said
I came across an 1892 takedown on gunbroker the other day (SN 629028).https://www.gunbroker.com/item/852929080
Ive been collecting some information on tang assembly markings for a little while and had a general question on how you would interpret or view these tang markings?
From what the lower tang reads “1011?” XX O(?) “RB”, you would expect it to have at least XX wood with rubber butt – but the assembly number is not X’d out, but looks like it has a line through it. On the upper tang the assembly number reads 10202 “CF”, “R”. The upper tang inlet is matching with assembly number 10202. As can be seen, the rifle has plain wood and is I-checked, and suspect the “R” on the upper tang again refers to rubber butt. Does anyone disagree that the assembly numbers are legit? If they are legitimate, would it be likely the rifle had fancy wood and was later changed out to plain wood for some reason or another. Unfortunately there is not a pic of the underside of the buttplate to see if it has the 1011? assembly number.
Just looking for differing opinions if any are to be had as a matter of curiosity.
The “O” stands for oiled stock as apposed to “V” for varnished. When I blew up the photo it appears that the 1011 on the lower tang has 2 lines through it? It looks like the upper tang is marked 10202 CH. The RB might be for the shotgun butt? My guns with hard rubber shotgun butts don’t have the RB but one has a “R”.
1873man said
Chris,The “R” stands for Rifle. The 73’s have them as well as “C” for carbine and “M” for musket.
Bob
From what Ive found in my meager little data set for models 1892 & 1894’s and some 1886’s is that if its a PG stock with carbine butt it will be stamped with a “C”. PG with a shotgun butt, it will be stamped with an “S” (possibly because they have all been so far steel buttplates). And PG with an R it will have a rifle or crescent butt. As mentioned in another post, you brought up the “RB” for rubber butt which makes sense, its the only one Ive seen so far with the “RB”. May be the case here of space to add that “B” to the “RB” on the upper tang. I agree that it appears the wood was downgraded at one time and that is why the new assembly number.
Chuck said
The “O” stands for oiled stock as apposed to “V” for varnished. When I blew up the photo it appears that the 1011 on the lower tang has 2 lines through it? It looks like the upper tang is marked 10202 CH. The RB might be for the shotgun butt? My guns with hard rubber shotgun butts don’t have the RB but one has a “R”.
Chuck, Ive not come across those markings yet (O & V), thanks for the info, will keep an eye out. I thought the same that the lower tang assembly number had a couple lines through it. The “CH” is a “CF” that you see on models going back to the 1873 and 1876 I believe. There was a discussion on the forum a couple years ago regarding the “CF” and the theory was floated it could potentially stand for “Custom Fitting”, but nothing is definitive. There are a lot of acronyms that could involve CF–custom fitting, custom finish, etc. Whats interesting though is the CF stamp is found on (if I remember correctly) on the 1873 and 1876 in the same script and script size.
This is all just a best guess based on a data from this little pet project, the more examples I come across will keep adding to the data set to maybe see any greater patterns or changes through time.
Thank you both for your comments.
Chris
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
Its not just pistol grips that have the R for rifle. Here are a one of mine. A second model 73 that letters 26″ octagon rifle with casehardened straight grip with the CF (custom fit) and the R (rifle). Then I have two 73 straight grip rifles that letter 38 caliber half octagon, casehardened, swiss butt and half mag with the CF and SB for swiss butt. Then I have a takedown deluxe 94 extra light weight 1/2 mag 1/2 octagon with shotgun rubber butt with the SB on the tang.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Thanks Bob for the comments regarding the straight gripped and checked assembly numbers/markings. Makes sense they would be similarly marked. Straight grip checked or unchecked semi or deluxe guns are fewer and far between for comparison.
Chris
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
1873man said
Then I have two 73 straight grip rifles that letter 38 caliber half octagon, casehardened, swiss butt and half mag with the CF and SB for swiss butt. Then I have a takedown deluxe 94 extra light weight 1/2 mag 1/2 octagon with shotgun rubber butt with the SB on the tang.
Same letters for two different butts? Odd to mark them at all if the markings aren’t specific.
And what would be “custom” about the fitting, since these were standard catalog options? As opposed, for ex., to a customer who might have provided his own plate removed from another gun, which would have to be custom-fitted.
I can’t provide any better explanation of the meaning of these letters, but these don’t seem entirely convincing.
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