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I’m new here, and been looking back at old post and so forth. I just received 3 back issues yesterday in mail I ordered that I for sure wanted, namely the ones by Bert on the Mod64 & Mod71. I read the article last night on the Mod64, my by far favorite rifle, and it was great! Gonna read up on the Mod 71 soon. I also ordered the Fall 2022 because of the article on Bear Guns, I’ll read soon. But I’ve seen old post pertaining to especially interesting to me, the 30wcf, John Kort, and heavy bullets in the 30wcf.
I never knew John personally, but did post with him a few times on another site I frequent,?long ago? and I must admit he’s a major reason I started reloading! For most part, I’ve shot and hunted with the 30-30 all my life, and most that I was of the vast majority opinions, why even reload for a 30-30 knowing a box of Rem CL or Win PP 170’s is all this cartridge can do! Well, from what I’ve learned since, and probably as much reloading and testing bullets and powders in 3 30-30’s since as anyone, I’m in last 6 months at conclusion that this is only 95% true!
I’ve seen post of people having shot up to 220gr bullets, in a 30-30, cast im sure, with better than expected results. But that’s I’d say for fun shooting and metal dinging, and I’m only a hunting bullets tester and for hunting purposes interested!
But I’m intrigued in recent years of the obviously true great success of the 303 Savage with always the 190g bullets on Big Bears and Moose! And come find out, Lotta people have even pulled the 190g RN from the 303s cartridge to use in a 30wcf because of no 303 rifle available and so forth, but long ago.
Then in 2019 I found out that Barnes was making a 190g 308″ bullet just for the 30-30. But I was also hung in the thoughts that “it won’t do anymore than a good 170gr bullet, and for just deer country this is for the most part true. Or again, maybe just 95% true!
But you don’t know till you try, and for me in deer woods, I’ve done fine with 170gr bullets, actually almost perfect as far as recovery, and that goes against most all local opinions of the 30-30 in recent years. Back in 60’s-70’s the 30-30 was plenty popular here, successful, but seems since the 30-06 and 270’s have taken over, and now the 6.5’s, BORING! I have several rifles of each, reload for em, and I love the 06 just about as much as the 30-30, but truth is I’ve yet to kill a deer with anything other than a 30-30 with iron sights, plus other game, yotes especially. I will eventually probably go to one my 06’s and scope, because of my eyes when I have too, but till then I love shooting and hunting with the “little engine that could”! I’m 65, and oh what a joy to hunt these big rough mountains packing a 6.5 LB rifle that comes to shoulder and gets on target as fast and easy and consistently accurate for me as my Mod 64 & iron sights, vs a 9lb scoped rifle that I don’t care what anyone says, is not as quick and sure for a 75yd but usually less, shot at a deer in heavy brush, that’s already leaving here!
But I’ve also looked into the Brush Busting Bullets theory, and rightfully so where I hunt. And it’s obvious that no bullet hits brush, even the tiny twigs without deflection of some degree! But I’ve read plenty by Francis Sell, and his in depth,in the field, noted and published results of plenty of tests with lots of cartridges shows there us merit in certain heavy for caliber bullets! And i have his book that shows that the 30-30 & 170gr bullet was one the better! So it’s obvious that’s another possible plus for the 190g bullet!
But regardless, I’m about concluded, I’m going to hunt with this Barnes 190gr in my Mod 64, it’s IMO, 2-3 good steps above the 170g. Just for comparison, vast majority of the deer killed with a 30-30 & 170gr where from 20″carbines, and I know from testing that most those MV’s would probably average about 2200fps +-! I shot almost completely though a deer once frontal quartering shot and found the Rem CL against the hide at the rump. I have no doubt, had the long stem 190g mushroomed the same way, @ only 20fps les MV would’ve easily exited! Not to mention what that longer heavier bullet would do thru both front shoulders!
And I’m planning to get into bear hunting for first time this year, we have plenty big black bears here, but a very short season, but I’m gonna buy my first ever tag.
But only reason I could find not to try this bullet, knowing the Barnes Original track record for years on Big and dangerous game up north, was accuracy? And I’ve found it to be be just as accurate as most other 170gr’s out to 125 yds, but vast majority of my shooting has been at 60yds so far. I’ll do more 100yds+ shooting soon.
But last time I shot, I did it all at 60yds, but last shot, I’d set a milk jug @ 125yds out in the timber, kinda dark, like a hunting shot. I stood took this one hunting type quick shot off hand.
And here’s the 190g Barnes on the right next too a 170gr Nosler Partition.
I also did not know John Kort personally, but I did have contact with him through other forums. In a somewhat similar vein, here’s a topic I started a few months ago:
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/general-discussions-questions/john-kort-and-the-30-wcf/
M64lvr –
We think alike. Here’s a thread I started 10 months ago:
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-shooting-and-hunting/30-wcf-with-220-grain-bullets/
I’m concerned we think so alike someone might accuse one of us of being a sock puppet of the other 
steve004 said
M64lvr –We think alike. Here’s a thread I started 10 months ago:
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-shooting-and-hunting/30-wcf-with-220-grain-bullets/
I’m concerned we think so alike someone might accuse one of us of being a sock puppet of the other
That’s a good thread, and 30wcf was his username when I first read of him. Seems he kinda went more into being 44wcf afterwards.
M64lvr said
steve004 said
M64lvr –
We think alike. Here’s a thread I started 10 months ago:
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-shooting-and-hunting/30-wcf-with-220-grain-bullets/
I’m concerned we think so alike someone might accuse one of us of being a sock puppet of the other
That’s a good thread, and 30wcf was his username when I first read of him. Seems he kinda went more into being 44wcf afterwards.
When I saw the title of your thread this morning “30wcf” – I immediately thought of John Kort as that was his handle. Yes, he really did get into the 44 WCF. Other projects too. I mainly associate him with the 30WCF and the 44WCF. I know Clarence associates him with .22 rimfire black powder cartridges.
steve004 said
M64lvr –We think alike. Here’s a thread I started 10 months ago:
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-shooting-and-hunting/30-wcf-with-220-grain-bullets/
I’m concerned we think so alike someone might accuse one of us of being a sock puppet of the other
Ah, no matter, I’ve been accused of lot worse! A 220gr bullet @ anything near 2,000fps, out of a 30wcf cartridge, and safely? Now that shows experimental testing over 100 years later, that would’ve been done, had not the 30wcf been swept away in the storm of all the new cartridges that came about in just a few years time period at the turn of the century!
There were 2 articles back to back in Sporting Classics about a year ago, both reprints of articles from that time frame. The first was by Theodore van Dyke, and he knowing hunting rifles like few others, well he made the 30wcf to be the best thing going since buttered bread. The other, I forget his name, was just few years later, described the 30wcf as about useless for anything bigger than a groundhog, at least best I remember the article? I have it here. But as big of news as the 30wcf was at the time, comparable to the 6.5 Crede today, it was quickly over shadowed by all the bolt gun calibers with spitzer bullets!
And that’s easy to understand, and everyone excepts the limitations of the cartridge especially me. But the excepted thoughts of the factory loadings, a 150gr or 170gr SP us not it. It’s a little better than that.
I’ve put lotta time into last couple years with the LVR Powder and the Hornady 160ftx and out of my Mod 64 I was getting 2,420fps and with that bullet and a receiver sight it’s I’m sure a 250 yd deer or even elk capable! I killed my deer last November with that load at 50yds, dropped it in its tracks, with a frontal neck shot. But I didn’t like what I found of the remains of the bullet, a total fragmentation really, and no bone hit until it stopped little past the front shoulder. But I’d use it again for sure if long range shots where possible, say an antelope hunt with an iron sighted rifle!
But for hunting here, I believe a heavy RN or FN is most likely candidate to graduate with honors! That’s why I’m trying the Barnes 190gr. But without it, ill gladly settle for a 170gr Win PP, Rem CL, but haven’t been able to buy those in 5 years. But I’ve got them in Hawk, Nosler Pt, and Hornady IL.
Not to make the Hornady 160ftx sound like it’s no good, but too many broadside shots have to be taken where shoulders are only targets, and I now doubt it’s the best for these!
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