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.30 WCF with 220 grain bullets?
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August 13, 2023 - 11:10 pm
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At times, I have pondered loading some heavier bullets in the .30 WCF.

In doing some research, I ran into this from John Kort (2008 – cast boolits site):

I shoot the Lyman 311284 (220 gr. in w.w.+2% tin heat treated) in my .30-30’s. In my Marlins (10″ twist) I have actually gotten some 4″ groups @ 200 yards with subsonic loads (1,100 f.p.s.)

I load the bullet so that the base is even with the bottom of the case neck which means that it is a load one at a time ino the chamber proposition.

For ringing “Homer” the 1,000 yard steel buffalo, I use 34 grs. of H414 and in a 26″ barrel, it launches that 220 gr. bullet @ 2,000 f.p.s.

I had that load tested at a ballistics lab and, surprisingly, it was 5% below SAAMI MAP for the .30-30.

Have fun!
w30wcf

I also just read that at one time, DWM loaded a 200 grain softpoint factory load for the .30-30.

 

What’s the experience out there with our group?

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August 13, 2023 - 11:19 pm
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Steve,

A 220 grain bullet is too heavy to shoot accurately in a Winchester rifle (Model 1894) chambered for the 30 WCF.  The rifling twist rate used by Winchester for the 30 WCF was 1:12 and as such, it will not adequately stabilize a 220-gr bullet.  The optimum bullet weight for the 30 WCF was a 170-grain bullet.

Bert

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August 13, 2023 - 11:43 pm
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Steve-

I have not tried it, John lost me at the single loading. 170 is about as heavy as I’ve gone for 30WCF and 32WS. I wasn’t able to find a 311284 mould when working up loads for the 30US but my 312299 drops around 209 grains. Pretty sure it would be a single load proposition as well. Other problem is that I generally shoot my old lever guns at 50 yards these days and am not much interested in subsonic or long range. 
A 220 grain bullet @ 2000 fps is intriguing, however.  If I had a SS with a chamber that would accommodate a looooong bullet I’d be  hunting up a 311284 mould. Is H414 still available?

 

Mike

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August 15, 2023 - 12:07 am
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I realize there are various conventions that tell us what twist rates will stabilize what weight bullets and these are typically accurate and provide a good prediction of what will happen.  However, that is not always the case when individual experimentation comes into play.  I am often intrigued by the results of other’s experimentation.  John Kort’s experience was quite interesting.  

I was perusing some old Handloads.com data and a fellow was shooting a 220 grain round nose jacketed bullet in his .30-30 (a Model 94).  He advised that if loading the rounds into the magazine, “flat top the tip with a file.”  I don’t know if this was for safety sake or perhaps it made the difference in being able to cycle the rounds through the action.  He suggested 1900 fps and qualified this as a, “lowball estimate” (this aligns with John’s Kort’s velocity report).

This fellow’s top load was 30 grains of H335 and he suggested 27 grains as a starting load.  He reported, “Shoots one inch below a 170 gr. Silvertip load.”  And he added, “Great for animals that need lots of penetration like bear.”  Smile

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August 15, 2023 - 2:19 am
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Steve-
I think the “M” word was a key part of John’s formula. The 336’s 1:10 twist and likely Microgroove rifling probably handled the heavy bullet better than a 94. An early 36 or 336 with conventional rifling have handled it even better but I was never interested enough to try it out.

 

Mike

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August 15, 2023 - 6:10 pm
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TXGunNut said
Steve-

I think the “M” word was a key part of John’s formula. The 336’s 1:10 twist and likely Microgroove rifling probably handled the heavy bullet better than a 94. An early 36 or 336 with conventional rifling have handled it even better but I was never interested enough to try it out.

 

Mike

  

I wouldn’t go out an buy the bullets just to try it out.  However, given the bullets are already here, it’s a bit more tempting.  The problem is I like to keep the experimentation with my vintage/collectible Winchesters to a minimum.  I do some testing of various bullet/powder combinations but I stay in well-charted territory.  To venture into minimally charted territory … is something I prefer watching others do Wink  

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August 15, 2023 - 9:18 pm
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Never considered a 220gr bullet for 30-30. 170-180gr bullets have always done the trick for me. I find the 220 to sit too deep in the case for 30-40 and 30-06 so I would assume it would be even deeper into a 30-30. 

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August 16, 2023 - 4:19 pm
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steve004 said

I wouldn’t go out an buy the bullets just to try it out.  However, given the bullets are already here, it’s a bit more tempting.  The problem is I like to keep the experimentation with my vintage/collectible Winchesters to a minimum.  I do some testing of various bullet/powder combinations but I stay in well-charted territory.  To venture into minimally charted territory … is something I prefer watching others do Wink  

  

Find the max OAl of the loaded round then play with bullet seating depth. You may find a sweeter spot?  Depending on what animal you are shooting you may single feed the ammo and if so this really opens up your seating depth choices. 

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August 16, 2023 - 4:48 pm
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I guess I’m not going to get to play along at home. My “heavy” 30 cal bullet has a long nose and the crimp groove is not far from the base. Works fine in an 1895 or a bolt gun, don’t think my 1894’s will like it.

 

Mike

 

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